Argue for the most revisionist position you hold

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, May 12, 2022.

  1. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    I rate current fighters on resume (I don't actually believe Estrada is the best around), but my all-time rankings are my own estimations of each boxer's capabilities head-to-head.
  2. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    Estrada is arguably undefeated against Chocolatito, Cuadras and Sor Rungvisai. I think he beat the latter two in each of the four meetings. I've never been able to produce a score for either one of the encounters against Gonzalez, but I came away with the impression that he won those as well.

    Usyk is actually undefeated and has an amazing resume in his own right, but that isn't enough to depose Estrada in my view.

    Before last Saturday, I had Canelo in the third spot. I haven't decided if the loss to Bivol slides him down a rung or two.
    Alvarez has a spotty record south of super middleweight, but his performances against Golovkin and Jacobs, no matter how I personally scored them, did a lot to redeem him in my eyes. Securing undisputed status, albeit in a less talented division, is also impressive. Unlike many, I give him massive respect for beating Kovalev. And from the Saunders fight, he faced opponents who had his stylistic number back-to-back-to-back.
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  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 15, 2018
    Lol saw your list and matches up rather closely with mine. I just have Liston ranked a little higher lol
  4. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

    Oct 25, 2020
    wow never considered this match but that's an awful style match up for holyfield. I could still see Evander pull it off through sheer grit and get a come from behind win but yeah i see where you're coming from.
  5. Showstopper97

    Showstopper97 The Icon banned Full Member

    Oct 7, 2020
    73-74 Foreman KO's 65-67 Ali
    91 Tyson KO's 91 Holyfield
    Prime Barkley beats Prime Jones at 160 (via KO or UD)
    Floyd schools Arguello (Genero Hernandez style)
    Broner gives Duran a tough fight at 147
    cross_trainer likes this.
  6. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    "Tire Iron" Jones would have finished Ali off if he'd been in there instead of Cooper vs Ali.

    Fight me, all of you
    cross_trainer likes this.
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Doesn't everyone believe that? :cool:
    BCS8 likes this.
  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 16, 2019
    I will play politician, fighters from all era's were great in their respective era, our threads are all hypothetical and are open to personal opinions and taste as these fighters will never actually meet in the ring, but it is fun to imagine. We should realize that every generation has their favorites of their present time as well as other posters who have theirs. It is kind of like music, maybe your parents did not care for your taste in music when you were old enough to make an opinion of your favorite recording artist, at the same token you may have thought their taste in music was Goofy. Everyone has there own favorites but there is no evidence of who would have won, pure speculation.
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  9. OP_TheJawBreaker

    OP_TheJawBreaker NOBODY hit like that guy! Full Member

    Jun 23, 2021
    Why the f_ck all of people in this thread aren't a fan of heavyweights? @George Crowcroft loves light heavies, @Journeyman92 is a lover for the smaller weights, @Dynamicpuncher can't differentiate what's a good and a great heavyweight fight, I think @Jel also loves the lower weights and so much more.

    For me, all the greatest fights mentioned in the internet and I mean LITERALLY all of them (actually most) sucks. Marciano-Walcott? Yeah that's barely entertaining, Louis-Conn? only the last two rounds were great Holyfield-Tyson? well that didn't suck but other Holyfield fights are simply better Patterson-Johansonn 3? Well that's garbage Lewis-Vitali? Seen it 100 times already and it still suck.

    What am I trying to say? People's taste of heavyweight fights in this forum are terrible (seriously, no offense). There are so many exeggerrated wars that I find pretty good or only good. Like, many people (especially in this forum) said Lewis-Mercer, Morrison-Williams & Harris-Jefferson were peak entertainment and I was dissapointed when I watched it.

    Lewis-Mercer is nothing but a great round 4. Morrison-Williams was terrible beatdown Morrison laid out on Williams, Williams evening the knockdown doesn't make the fight look more competitive. He was (like always) eating left hooks and found no way of making adjustment of defending it. Harris-Jefferson was a one sided beating. My brain cannot understand how that is a "great fight", it simply could not. The amount of time Harris was dropped was uncountable and all he did was hurt Jefferson what, twice? the second is when he got KTFO by a left hook.

    What do I think is the best HW fight of all time? Larry Holmes vs Ken Norton. There, I've said it. That fight was actually close and competitive, many dramatic & critical moments, standout rounds, great display of skill, lots of continuous action, high workrate, momentum shifts and dual exchanging.

    Not a fairly one sided bout like Ali-Frazier 1 or Bowe-Holyfield 1 (tho both still top 5, those are great, great fights). What other fights I consider great? And if I had a list what are the fights in them?

    10. Ike Ibeabuchi vs David Tua

    - This fight has one thing that made it entertaining. And it's their workrate. Not many dramatic moments, no momentum shifts, no standout round just constant taking and throwing punches maintained in one pace with steady workrate. At the of the fight, Ibeabuchi's overwhelming workrate would win him a decision over Tua.

    9. Lamon Brewster vs Siarhei Liakhovich

    - It was a great fights and often called the most action packed bout in the decade of 2000s. The mid rounds was grueling and straight out brutal. Brewster pounds Liakhovich in the 5th but Liakhovich came back with a murderous assault of his own. Brewster was relentless and dropped Liakhovich in the 7th and the two battled it out till the final bell.

    8. Bert Cooper vs Michael Moorer

    - It was an explosive bout. With many knockdowns and ebb and flows. The first round was probably the best 1st round in HW history, 2 knockdowns in one round. Cooper later dropped Moorer after a series of punches but he got up would later knock Cooper out brutally with a beautifully set up uppercut.

    7. Mike Weaver vs John Tate

    - The greatest come from behind win (and actually a great one). Way better than Marciano-Walcott and Louis-Conn. Mainly becuz Weaver only had 1 minute left to score a knockout and win the fight. He did unexpected and knock Tate out with sensational left hook that'll drop Tate flat finish. The first 10 rounds weren't dull either as Tate hurt Weaver a couple of moments and the 12th was great standout round.

    6. Vitali Klitschko vs Corrie Sanders

    - From the opening bell Sanders hurt his opponent with straight left. Vitali surviving the assault and was (depends on you) dropped in the first round. Round 2 was great round for Dr. Ironfist but the 3rd would be a great round for Sanders as he landed many effective left hands. It was a grueling fight while it lasted and in my opinion the best HW fight of the 2000s decade.

    5. George Foreman vs Ron Lyle

    - An insane back an forth between two murderous heavyweight sluggers. Foreman was badly hurt by a right in the 1st while Lyle was rocked badly in the 2nd. Though round 3 was uneventful, round 4 would be one of the greatest rounds in the history of the sport. Three knockdowns occure with Foreman suffering twice and Lyle once. Lyle would ultimately get knocked out by a series of non stop uppercuts, he fell flat to the canvas and unable to get up.

    4. Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas

    - It was a great upset and a great fight at the same time. Douglas used an effective left jab that'll trouble Tyson throughout the whole fight. He scored heavily with combinations and was never afraid of backing down or trade punches with him. He got up from a murderous uppercut and would later knock Tyson out with the same punch but this time followed by a three punch combination. Tyson failed to get up and that was a insane cinematic moment.

    3. Riddick Bowe vs Evander Holyfield 1

    - 12 round heavyweight madness! This was an incredible fight between both fighters, Bowe was dominating pretty much the whole time but Holyfield always showed warrior's heart and stood toe to toe with a much bigger foe. The first round was an explosion and they had some very intense moments as Holyfield had to wether Big Daddy's assault after receiving a fight ending uppercut to the jaw. Despite the gruesome fight, they both still managed to hear the final bell.

    2. Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1

    - Although this was a fairly one sided fight. The continuous action in this battle was indescribable. Frazier was looking to knock Ali out multiple times and had hit him everything except the kitchen sink. There's no more explanation for this fight, a terrific war with non stop activity and action from the opening bell.

    1. Larry Holmes vs Ken Norton

    - The greatest HW fight of all time. The first 6 rounds was won easily by Holmes but Kenny would later dominate the other 6. It was an astonishing war, with lots of great showings of skill and heart. Continuous action in round 12, 13, 14 & 15. Just like I said above, it has every aspect to make a great fight. Close and competitive, many dramatic & critical moments, standout rounds, great display of skill, lots of continuous action, high workrate, momentum shifts and dual exchanging.
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Curtis Cokes>Luis Rodriguez @147.

    I refuse to present an argument because it should be absolutely self-evident to you idiots.
    cross_trainer and Jel like this.
  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    I don’t agree with everything you said but your intro made me laugh!

    I think we’ve established in the overrated fights thread that we have pretty different tastes in fights.

    Good heavyweight top 10 btw. I’d include Holmes-Weaver in there myself but hey, it’s your list.
  12. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Active Member Full Member

    Jan 14, 2022
    Weaver vs Tate and Sanders vs Klitschko are not top 10 fights.

    Weaver vs Tate isn't a memorable fight outside of the last round.

    And Sanders vs Klitschko is one sided outside of brief 1st round vs Sanders.

    Your saying Harris vs Jefferson is too one sided, but yet Harris was more competitive vs Jefferson than Sanders was vs Klitschko. Harris was able to floor Jefferson, and had him in trouble in 6th round, until Jefferson pulled out a peach of a punch.

    Weaver vs Holmes is better than Weaver vs Tate. And Sanders vs Rahman is better than Sanders vs Klitschko.

    And I can assure you I know the difference between Good and "Great".
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 4, 2008
    I think Pac deservedly won the third meet with Marquez and that the scores for Canelo-Golovkin 1 and 2 and Canelo-Bivol were generally correct (not the card that had Canelo beating GGG with 8 pts, though). So despite two very bad cards in Canelo's favour (the one that had him drawing with Floyd also) I don't think any of his results have been unfair.

    That's probably the most revisionist I can do.
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  14. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Active Member Full Member

    Jan 14, 2022
    117-111 in Lara fight was pretty bad also.
    Richard M Murrieta and Bokaj like this.
  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 15, 2018
    Holmes v Norton…wasn’t even that close. Was competitive but score wise thought Larry was comfortable enough and he was. Not as entertaining as some make it but to each their own…Ali v Frazier 3 was the best one imo…Walcott v Marciano is a classic as is Marciano v Charles 2 with all its dramatics. Bob Satterfield has a million good fights you May enjoy. Tyson v Douglas is a good fight…underrated. I agree with other posters…Sanders v Vitali doesn’t belong lol other then that not bad.
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.