Arguello vs Mayweather at 130

So you don't think that speed and movement were issues for Arguello?

That would be applying pressure Corrales-style. We all know what happened there.

 

They were. Definitly. However, I do think they are slightly over-played.

Come on. Comparing Corrales and Arguello isnt correct. Arguello is 10x better than Corrales.

 

Then it seems wise to favour over him Mayweather, who embodies those two traits at 130 pretty much as well as any fighter I've ever seen, unless you think there's a dramatic gulf in class between the two in Arguello's favour (which there isn't - if anything, it's the other way around).

Yes, but the Corrales fight illustrates what happens to a stand-up puncher without the stylistic attributes of an effective pressure fighter when they try to walk Mayweather down.

 

Mayweather has the stylistic advanatge. Yes. Although it is not as much of one as people make it out to be.

But Arguello is alot better than Corrales at everything. And Arguello has the stylistic attributes of a pressure fighter, where do you feel he fails at putting on pressure?

 

If a stylistic advantage is enough to cause a B-level fighter to get the better of an ATG - and whatever you say about Arguello not being at his best, there is some significance to that - then it's obviously considerable. Compare how Duran handled runners like Fernandez (who arguably boxed even more negatively then that he did vs. Arguello). He didn't look pretty, but he got the job done. Arguello losing narrowly to B-level mover/slickster implies Arguello losing heavily to ATG mover/slickster.

Mainly, he stays outside most of the time rather than closing the gap. Also: Slow getting off/waits for opportunities, not a great jab, not very quick, often slow at cutting the ring off, etc. Pressure just isn't Arguello's game. He's at his best when fighters come at him and walk into his combinations/power.

 

Over 15 rounds it s a different story.

Duran had problems with Fernandez in the first 10 rounds and it was close, then Duran took over. And I dont think Fernandez was negative against Arguello, he moved laterally, not backwards.

I disagree, Arguello was very adept at putting pressure on, he closes the gap with a brilliant hard straight left, and cuts off the ring quite well. Timing makes up for his speed IMO and he can wait to counter though.

 

Why? This is an over-rated tendency I feel. Arguello had great stamina. Other than that, it's not like he makes special adjustments in the later rounds. It's just generally when people get tired of him smashing them in the face, aren't durable enough to compete. Mayweather isn't gong to be taking substantial punishment here.

Well, he finished the job which he had been starting in the early rounds, rather than being outboxed like Arguello was.

I meant in the Carl Froch sense of "negative".

When?

Indeed, this is what he does 99% of the time, which isn't applying pressure.

 

I sse this as a "typical" Mayweather fight. Arguello gets off to an early lead. I see him being smart staying on the outside. He might even hurt Mayweather in the early going.
After a few rounds Mayweather is going to figure Arguello out.
The tide will change in the fourth and from round five on Mayweaher wins every round. In a 12 and a 15 round bout.

 

What I've been trying to get people to realize when the argument of 15 rounds are brought up. If anything Alexis is going to be in more of a worse way going into the later rounds than Floyd, not to mention Floyd is a pretty traditional 15 round fighter and his defensive abilities aren't going to allow him to be touched too often unless Alexis finds a way to land something big and EARLY. Many like to make a decision on the bout based on what we see from Floyd today, but he was a FAR different fighter @ 130, one of the best fighters I've ever seen.

 

I think to start using the ''Floyd never fought over 15 rounds'' argument is pathetic to be honest.

He's only fought DLH, Hatton, Marquez and Mosley in his last four fights and looked fresh as a daisy after each of them - all of them went ten rounds or more. Hardly the hallmarks of someone that will gas in the last couple.

 

I think Arguello cranks it up as rounds pass, he increases the pressure becomes busier. Also his body work really pays dividends here, he slows the other man down.

He also had the benefit of added rounds, if it went 12 perhaps it could have been different. I'm not speculating but longer rounds would have suited Arguello, as it did Duran. Arguello was beat that night, and I aint taking anything away from it.

What the hell does that mean?

Its his more scientific dissections that he applies pressure, I think the Kobayashi fight is the prime example of this, he slowly turns up the pressure until taking him out. And Kobayashi was a good operater.

I think it depends the style of fight he is in. Most of his fights that people watch are when someone goes forward on him, and he did not need to apply pressure. Even though in the late goings against Mancini he upps the pace, and I would say that increases the pressure he is exerting.

Have you seen Arguello?

 

Periphrasis.

It's all very well applying more pressure as the rounds tick by. You can do that to pull out a victory against a relatively hittable opponent in a close fight. Thing is, I don't see how Arguello's going to be landing on a consistent basis anyway. He struggles to get off on a fast, moving target, and Mayweather is quicker to the punch and just as accurate, and at 130 had the legs to immediately move off to the side after firing and slip any couters heading his way. That spells for a one-sided beating IMO. I don't mean to insult AA or derogate his ability. It's just a uniquely awful match up against a special fighter.

He increased pressure in the widest sense - counter-pressure, or activity levels, perhaps.

 

What the hell does that mean?

I do think it is a bad match up and he loses, I think he loses fairly closely over 15. But I do think you are selling him short. I think Arguello struggles with an attack that is to the body then goes up to the head, Arguello could deliver that, and his late rounds surge would make it closer than perhaps it should be.

He basically kept in-front of Mancini and kept punching.

 

I don't think anyone was saying Floyd would wilt, I think they were saying that Arguello was a proven master of winning fights in the championship rounds over the 15 distance.

 

To say it would be a typical Mayweather fight is very disrespectful of Arguello's abilities. He is not a typical Mayweather opponent, because Mayweather has never fought anyone even close to his level, so it couldn't be a typical Mayweather fight. It would be his biggest test, he would have to swim in waters he's never been in against weight-drained Corrales and shot Mosley and the like. Your post is very dismissive indeed.