Art Donovan, was he at all partial to Joe Louis?

It was a different time from what we now associate between the mob and boxing. When Louis was coming up and became a sensation in boxing the mob's involvement in the sport was much more of a hobby than the outright control and fight fixing that was seen in the late 1940s and 1950s. Mobsters owned fighters but strong arming officials, fixing fights, etc was very much the exception, not the rule. These guys owned fighters because it was cool to be associated with a tough guy sport like boxing. Just like 3 decades later they owned racehorses. Louis became a streaking sensation BEFORE he ever got to New York. When he got to New York and slaughtered guys like Carnera, Uzcudan, and Baer the only one of those guys that was really connected and associated with anything shady was Carnera and the mob had dumped him by then. In a way it was very smart for Louis to take these guys out of the trashcan and beat them when all were seen to be in decline, had fallen out of favor, and yet were still fairly big names that would garner Louis a lot of visibility. It didnt hurt that Mike Jacobs, who was in the process of knocking Johnston out of the top promotional spot, threw his weight behind Louis. So by about 1935 Louis was big enough, and had enough support, that the mafia couldnt really do anything to halt his rise (even if they wanted to which is purely speculation in and of itself).

 

of all the referee's out there I think Donovan's life story would be worth the telling.

he was the Top 3rd man in the greatest of overall era's and he refereed damn near all of the Greats and top men.

a period Boxing movie from the point of view of Arthur Donovan would be excellent.

 

We get it Mendoza, you think black skin = inferior fighters, corruption, or just generally bad people. No need to belabor the point with nonsense arguments based on fabricated information and facts.

 

"the author of the link says he fouled"

Yes. He did.

"and the films show this too."

No, they don't. Donovan clearly waves Baer toward Louis and the punch on film hits Baer on the side of the jaw. It is not correct to blame the fighter for the referee not hearing the bell. I did not see on the film Baer turn his back on Louis nor a punch by Louis to the back of the head which the author describes.

"If we use the ringside crowd, Louis loses to Walcott"

Okay. A fair argument. But Louis gave Walcott another chance and KO'd him. I don't think there has been a champion who didn't have a disputed and controversial decision somewhere along the line. The great ones give a rematch and remove all doubt, as Louis did.

"incompetent or crooked"

I gave my reason for taking crooked off the table. Incompetent? Well, the one problem is Donovan had the best view of anyone of the fight, and certainly better than we get off an edited film.

"stop the fight and dock a point"

Did Donovan do this in the first Schmeling fight when Schmeling hit Louis after the bell in the fifth round? I have to think Donovan knew the rules and standards of the era as he was consistently put in charge of the biggest fights, and not just the ones with Louis participating. I might think Louis should have been given time to recover from the Schmeling right, but apparently that was not the standard practice at the time.

Besides, the Baer fight was over. Baer wasn't coming back out. A point docked wouldn't have mattered. The film shows that Donovan had in fact stopped the fight after the last punch. It was only then that he apparently learned that the bell had rung before Baer managed to stagger to his feet and Donovan unwisely let the fight go on. Donovan can be, and was, criticized for what happened in this fight, but it doesn't follow that Louis should take the hit for the ref's confusion.

 

I want Mendoza to show us where all these opinions are that Louis got a gift against Godoy.

Harold Conrad: Brooklyn Eagle L9 G5 E1 Conrad wondered what fight judge Tommy Shortell was watching.
Cy Peterman: Philly Inq L7 G6 E2 SHortell's decision was daffy
Murray Lewin: New York Mirror L13 G2
Jack Cuddy: UP L5 G5 E5
W.W. Edgar: Detroit Free Press Louis won
Hype Igoe: New York Journal-Am. L9 G6
Havey Boyle: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Louis won
James Dawson: New York Times L10 G5
Jack Mahon: New York Daily News L9 G4 E2
Sid Feder: AP L10 G5
Red Smith: Philly Record Louis won "without much trouble"
Caswell Adams: New York Herald Tribune L10 G5
Ed Hughes: Godoy won
Dan Daniel: Louis whipped Godoy by a margin of 3 to 1
Frank Graham: New York Sun Louis' margin was thin but clear
Wilbur Wood: New York Sun L7 G6 2E Wood hinted that Shortell, who had been a judge for over 20 years, was getting long in the tooth as evidenced by him giving Louis only one of the championship rounds when most others had Louis sweeping those rounds.
Buster Miller: New York Age Louis won by a wide margin but looked bad in spots. Tommy Shortell's vote was "the most mystifying event" of the evening.

So out of the 17 unofficial but expert opinions I took the short time to review you have 15 for Louis, 1 for Godoy, and 1 draw. Not exactly the robbery you want us to believe it was.

Another factor, like the Farr fight and Walcott fights, was that Louis was once again not only a heavy favorite (10 to 1) but also odds were heavy that Godoy would not finish the fight. The fact that Godoy went the distance, and Louis looked bad in spots, no doubt contributed to some giving Godoy more credit than he deserved (and this sentiment was echoed by many of the press).

 

On Louis and the mob

Without evidence, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Louis was controlled by white mobsters. I think the powers that be, and I mean really powerful politicians such as FDR and Lehman, understood his importance to the black community and probably the word came down to keep hands off. The mob? Sure there was money to be made in boxing, but it was chicken feed compared to the money they made because the politicians looked the other way on gambling and vice and all the rest of the mob's activities as long as the mob came through on election day. If the big shots told them to lay off I think they would, sticking to fixing elections rather than Louis fights.

 

The film does not show Louis fouled ,it shows Baer staggering towards

him , carried forward by his momentum,and receiving a right hand on the left side of the head.

I have seen footage of the first Godoy fight ,but not the whole fight and neither have you.

Now do you want to finally get around to addressing the 14 inaccuracies/lies/mistakes,[ take your pick]that I corrected ?

Your agenda driven character assassination has been a complete and utter failure.
So no change there then.

 

The mob really came back into prominence after Jacobs retired with Norris, Wirtz ,and Gibson in close cahoots with Costello, Luciano , Carbo, and Palermo. This was during the late 40's and through the 50's .

"Jacobs Beach" is a great read on this subject.

 

I think the fact that,[as you say,] Louis was favourite and expected to dispose of Godoy without too much trouble did,like the Farr,and Walcott fights, influence the fans reaction to the finish .


All the sportswriters you mentioned did have two things in their favour.
1.They were present at ringside.
2.They viewed the fight in it's entirety.

How Mendoza can give a definitive opinion of both the Godoy & Walcott first fights , having only seen only edited excerpts is absolutely nonesensical to me.:huh

ps .Great insde info BTW

 

What's the matter Mendacious ? Not going the way you planned?