At middleweight, of course. The Pavlik vs Duran thread got me thinking so I came up with this one. Abraham doesn't have Pavliks size or workrate, but he may very well be a bigger puncher, stronger and he's got a better defense. Who wins?
What makes you think Abraham doesn't have Pavlik's size? Come fight night, both are around the lightheavyweight limit. So basically we're talking about a great lightweight vs a good lightheavyweight. For whatever reason (stamina?), Abraham often does little but defend and cover up for almost 2 minutes a round but throws huge bombs for the other part. For that reason, some lesser fighters have been up or even with him by round 8, but none of them lasted the distance or could keep up the pace. Duran could perhaps win a decision, but Abraham hits like a truck... anyone seen the recent Ayala KO? a sick one punch KO against a very durable opponent, here it is: [YT]KAbkAnjh6KY[/YT] I'm having trouble picking Duran here. His win over Barlkey was pretty close and he was badly hurt in the 3rd and 8th rounds, plus Barkley is not as hard a puncher as Abraham as well as a good 15 pounds smaller naturally. That stuff adds up when you're already so far above your best weight.
Yeah, you're right. I worded that wrong. What I meant was that Abraham doesn't have Pavlik's length. But he's big, I believe someone said that german tv reported both Miranda and Abraham weighed 173 on the night of their fight.
i don't even think it's a contest.it's a master against a novice.duran over whatever distance you choose.
Duran UD Abraham really isn't a pressure fighter. He fights from mid-range in spurts of explosive flurries. That isn't the way to beat this version of Duran who fought Barkley. His ring generalship, defensive skills, counterpunching, and savviness give him the edge. He'd outwork Abraham when he goes into a shell and when Abraham does throw punches, Duran would counter him to the body and the head. A very dangerous fight though because Abraham hits harder than both Barkley and Hagler with one-punch. Wouldn't be surprised if Abraham won it by stoppage.
i'm not being dispariging to abrahams,i just think there is that gulf between them.i think the size difference duran would make up with plain boxing savvy and knowhow.sure abrahams hits hard but so did barkley and hagler was no slouch either in the power stakes.watching abrahams against a very mediocre eastman he somehow won that fight without barely coming out of his shell until the late rounds.to be fair though he has improved since then,but beat duran? nah.
How do we know this, which top level fighter has Abraham beat to say this? He didnt stop Miranda, ex welter Juantua, Howard Eastman Shannon Taylor. None of these fighters have the defense or skill of Duran
I don't think Abraham adds that much weight and hes only 5'10, the same height as Leonard. Abraham isn't that muscular either, I'd say Abraham like most German based fighters is close to the weight limit on fight night
You are a prime example for a guy who judges without knowing something about the one to judge... Abraham's walk-around weight is about 185~190 lbs. He weighed 173 for his fight vs. Miranda. In their rematch they should both weigh around 180~185 come fight night...
Chris, I know and understand that intellectual hesitation you have in choosing Duran against MWs like Pavlik and Abraham. Size matters and I agree that it does. However, we have to remember that in the ring there are many other factors that tip the scales the other way and we have to avoid thinking as lay persons do ("Oh my, you can't beat him, HE'S BIGGER THAN YOU") because those expectations are disproven often in boxing. Joe Walcott (notwithstanding his starry-eyed ESB cult, it is a matter of record that he would beat men far larger and far stronger than he), Dempsey, Burly, Mickey Walker... etc. It can be done and it was -as long as all or some variation of the following are apparant in the smaller man: physical strength, good chin/sound defense, power, and (especially) majestic skill. Duran had all of these. Some may have a problem with Duran's relative power against larger men, but they should watch round 11 and 12 of Barkley-Duran. A bumpy Barkley literally gets on a bicyle while a man half a foot shorter than he stalks him. It's kind of funny to see. Stepping back and looking at these threads that line up Duran against a whole array of MWs and LHWs -and reading the angst and the amount of good posters who choose Duran -really does set the Panamanian apart. This was a natural lightweight, a small man. Duran beats Abraham -easier than he does Barkley or Pavlik. UD.
One factor that some of you might consider is that though its claimed that many middles enter the ring as lt heavies that in reality this is not totally accurate. Pavlik was 164 for the rematch with taylor which was made at 166,gerald mclelland was 165 for the benn fight at 168. That is two and three pounds inside the respective limits. Both of these guys are said to be lt heavies when rehydrated after making the 160 limit,yet when they engage in contests at the division above they come well inside the limit. This to me shows that either their claims of being 175 in the ring are bogus,or that they blow up to that weight because they made weight in a haphazard way and thus overcompensated the hydration process. The same thing also happened with hatton and calzaghe in their most recent fights. I tend to disregard these in the ring weights and go by the size and condition of the guys to the eye. Hatton was supposely 156 in the ring,yet was smaller than even the small welter floyd. Barkley was oviously a big man as evidenced by his frame and the fact he competed well at lt heavy and beyond. (for what its worth he was supposedly 180 in the ring v benn.) Anyway,the point im making is that barkley is as big as pavlik or abraham,punches comparably to these two and is tough as nails. Duran by close decision.
