Article from 1989: Experts Say Tyson would NOT Beat Joe Louis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Oct 24, 2017.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Joe Louis was 211 for the Maurelio fight.

    We are talking about negligible differences here.
     
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  2. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I've always thought that out of all of the ATG heavyweight champion, a young Mike Tyson would be the most dangerous adversary for a prime Louis. Tyson had the perfect combination of speed and power and chin.

    With Foreman, he'd have plenty of counter punching opportunities.

    Like Norton, he could jab to break Ali's rhythm and go to the body.

    Frazier was vulnerable to heavy handed power punchers

    Holmes could be caught and hurt badly by right hands and Louis was a master finisher.

    Lewis showed he could be stopped by perfectly timed, single right hand shots. The one that spun Buddy Baer around like water going down the drain would have certainly stopped Lennox Lewis if it landed square on the button.

    With Tyson, his chin can take single, heavy shots, he was great at slipping and avoiding jabs, he was quick handed arguably on par with Louis himself, had accuracy almost equal to Louis and devastating power and an excellent finisher and Louis was known to be hurt early.

    The one thing that would give me hope for Louis is Tyson's fight against Thomas. Louis jab was at the very least as quick and accurate as Thomas and with more firepower behind it. The only thing is that Thomas had a better chin than Louis. He ate clean shots from Bowe as if they were going out of style. Holyfield threw everything plus the kitchen sink at Thomas and he stayed on his feet. Mike Weaver caught him with some solid shots and he went nowhere. Tyson in the beginning landed some bombs on Thomas and Thomas survived and finally Tyson had to lay into him with pin point combinations to KO him.

    Now, if Louis could take what Thomas did, he could win this.
     
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  3. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I would pick Tyson to stop Louis inside 5 rounds. I'd be fairly confident. Mike brought alot of speed and he came in low. That would upset Joe's leverage, take it away. Louis had some trouble with shorter guys who might utilize a crouch. They were slightly different but it's a factor.

    Ofcourse I don't count out Joe Louis because he could time anyone.
     
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  4. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Me too, Louis might not win, but it's the way to bet.
     
  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That could be said of any great heavyweight against Tyson. Survive the early aggression and your chances of winning increased manifold.

    Lesser men than Louis survived Tyson's rampage.
     
  6. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    As far as pure skill is concerned, Michael Spinks and Tony Tubbs were among the best skilled fighters, but they just couldn't handle the power. One could say that lesser men than Frazier survived longer with George Foreman or lesser men than Patterson survived longer with Sonny Liston.
     
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  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's fair enough, but neither Spinks nor Tubbs carried the offensive ars.enal of Louis, who was, in my opinion more skilled than either of the two mentioned.


    Indeed, they could, but we're discussing Joe Louis and Mike Tyson and a simple reversal of the point I made, in the way that I made it, distracts from the question: Could Louis survive Tyson's early onslaught. The answer to which is yes, of course he could. Moreover, there's no substantial evidence to suggest he couldn't.
     
  8. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Yes and no. He was floored early by Galento and Buddy Baer and Braddock and Mauriello. On the other hand, he never seemed to be really hurt. But Tyson would be a superior puncher than those 4 by however you wish to measure it, be it sheer power, speed, accuracy, combination punching etc. At best it shows that Louis is vulnerable early.

    But when Louis was actually stopped, it was after a prolonged assault. One against a decently hard puncher and the other against an ATG puncher and that was when Louis was very road worn.

    Now, how hard Marciano hit in comparison to modern day hard punching heavies is up for debate. A guy like Patterson managed to drop Quarry and stagger Bonavena, both of whom are at least as durable as a modern day heavyweight (comparing them to the average heavyweight) and Marciano is for the most part rated a harder puncher than Patterson, so....

    Point is, the clues are there either way. If Louis did survive the early onslaught, there's clues pointing that way. If he was stopped early there's also clues pointing that way.
     
  9. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Louis would have a heck of a time beating Tyson.
     
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  10. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It shows Louis was "vulnerable" in so much that he could be knocked down; get back up again and win.


    It depends on how much significance you want to attach to his losses to Schmeling and Marciano, as they relate to how a prime Louis handled adversity. I don't place much on either of them, in that respect.

    After Schmeling I, Louis went for over 40 fights without being stopped, until the very end of his career. So, you can call them clues, if you like, but they are faintly relevant.


    Of course none of the above considers Louis' ability to time and counter with fast, hard assaults of his own. And, what about the stats, which clearly indicate Tyson's KO effectiveness falling through the floor after 6 rounds? These are bigger clues as to how this fight would go, in my opinion.

    Hanging one's hat on an early KO, seems to be the standard play made by speculators of 'Tyson against any other Great Heavyweight'; forgetting that he really didn't do this to anyone of note, save a well past prime and ring rusty Holmes.
     
  11. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Tyson looks like the much harder puncher of the two. Louis seems like he might be more accurate but then, Tyson seems like he's harder to land clean on. Frankly I pick Tyson. Louis has a decent chance of course, but up-close slugging is what Tyson does.
     
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  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    If you were Blackburn, what advice would you give Louis if he fought young Tyson?
     
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Fight from behind the jab and look for the counter, I guess. I know Louis is a great combo puncher but in this case I feel he'd have to set it up instead of imposing himself as against some other fighters. Certainly if Louis caught Tyson with something hard, he's got the firepower to put him away. But he's got to catch him first.
     
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  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You seem to imply that Tyson was difficult to hit. For some of the HWs he faced, he was, but to a boxer of Louis' caliber, I very much doubt Tyson would be difficult to time.

    Louis was as comfortable on the counter, as he was when looking to impose himself on an opponent. The Louis jab would certainly disrupt Tyson's intent and assist in providing opportunities for Louis to set up his counters.
     
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  15. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    A reasonable opinion.