Article: "Mayweather Diminished By Avoiding Pacquiao"

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by paulfv, Jun 8, 2011.


  1. Ceej1979

    Ceej1979 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 21, 2011

    Come on. Seriously

    Go on any serious board, and the majority of fans will be very neutral. Saying they hope they can sort out the drug issues, and get it done

    The minorities are people like you. And people on the other side, making accusations against Pacquiao

    Dan Raphael doesn't say the fight isn't happening because of Mayweather. He says it isn't happening, as because in every negotiation, they couldn't agree drug testing

    Which is the cold hard truth, no matter what conspiracy theories rival fans invent on their own
     
  2. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 7, 2007
    OSDT is a version of testing. Any version of testing can include cut-off dates, either negotiated ones or in-effect ones [like Mosley not being tested 18 days before the Mayweather fight, despite his possibly being tested then]. A kind of testing is simply that: A range of things tested for and a method (collecting blood and urine, as opposed to just, say, urine).

    And, you are wrong on this:
    This content is protected


    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-12-23-olympic-style-testing-the-last-hurdle_N.htm

    In his opinion, the cut-off date is inadequate. I understand that, but that does not invalidate that Pacquiao agreed to Olympic-Style drug testing, which collects blood as well as urine and may test for a wider range of PEDs than standard boxing testing.

    Now, what Tygart also says is that Tour De France users are tested on the day of events by WADA. By all accounts, those cyclists routinely beat the tests. Which means such testing isn't foolproof, and means that if you want to beat the tests, you can.

    Now, I have to look up how long EPO stays in the system. I would think it has to be 2-3 days, at least. So, if Pac agrees to a 7-day cut-off date, and someone thinks he is going to do EPO, then he would be introducing the EPO in the week before the fight -- when most fighters are in cool-down mode to gather up their strength for the bout -- and get, what, 4 days of supposed benefit from it?

    Doesn't seem to make much sense as a training regimen. A guy won't use EPO for his camp because of testing, but he'll slip some in in the last week before the fight? Even though he might risk getting caught in the post-fight test?

    Really? Really?
     
  3. Ceej1979

    Ceej1979 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 21, 2011
    You know, can you tell me who actually says any of this.

    All I can think of is:

    1: Examiner fan writers, who are just trying to get web hits from Asia, to make money

    2: An obscure ESPN sports comedy show
     
  4. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 7, 2007
    He may have given different reasons at the time, then reflected on it later. That happens.

    I'm not the person who created the story about Pacquiao blaming the loss to Morales on blood testing. It's out there; I didn't fabricate it out of nothing.

    I will try to look something up in a bit, though.
     
  5. Bazooka

    Bazooka Pimp C Wants 2 Be Me Full Member

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    Funny how he reflects on that at a time in which he is asked to take testing isnt it? I mean if that isnt a matter of conveniance I dont know what the **** is.
     
  6. Ceej1979

    Ceej1979 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 21, 2011

    That's not really true. Most of the cyclists who cheat, eventually get court.
    In fact, most of the major cyclists of the last 20 years have failed somewhere.

    The issue is OSDT is a deterrant. It's not designed to catch everyone. It's designed to put people off doing it in the first place.

    Here's an example

    If you said to someone, you can sleep with your hot neighbout, and her husband is guaranteed to only be home, one day a week, and we'll tell you when it is 3 months in advance- how many people are going to say no?

    How many people are goint to make the same decision, if they're told that the husband will be home, twice a day, and we won't tell you what time

    End of debate
     
  7. Divi253

    Divi253 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Apr 1, 2010
    Same could be said for him needing to agree to the tests. If the experts are conducting the tests they know when they should test and stop testing. If they stopped 18 days out for Mosley/Mayweather, why wouldn't they stop when it's safe for Pac? Do they have it out for Pac? Agree to full random blood testing up to the fight like he claims he has on video and get on with it. Why are we even arguing cut offs when you guys claim Pac's agreed?
     
  8. Ceej1979

    Ceej1979 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 21, 2011
    This is OSDT. How it works

    Drink driving laws.

    How many people drink drive, knowing they could be pulled over at any time?

    How many more people would drink drive, if they were guaranteed that nobody would pull them over, and all they had to do was go to a police station and pass one pre planned DUI test. And they'lll give you 3 months notice for it
     
  9. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2004

    :patsch Jesus christs... You think this is apt? :lol:
     
  10. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 7, 2007
    The cyclists do not get caught. Not all of them. And not the ones who are good at gaming the tests. This is what is going on with Lance Armstrong and his cohorts right now. They weren't caught. Neither was Marion Jones, who won numerous Olympic events.

    So, you take an arbitrary, non-mandatory test and ask an opponent. The opponent agrees to the demand. There is a 7-day window before the fight date -- a time window that is almost impossible to benefit from PEDs in -- and you still won't take the fight? Even though your own medical expert(s) allegedly told you this was more than enough?

    Pacquiao walked towards Mayweather on this issue. Even Victor Conte said that. We all agree the tests can be beat if one wants to do so. Pacquiao, with his fame and fortune now, could certainly beat the tests if he wanted to. But he agreed to the OSDT and made concessions. And it wasn't enough.

    That's where we stand.
     
  11. Divi253

    Divi253 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Apr 1, 2010
    Stop with all this logic ****!! Everyone know's that doing the random blood and urine up to the day of the fight is a good idea, they just hate it came from Floyd and it's directed towards Pac.
     
  12. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 7, 2007
    Because the initial issue -- why Pacquiao didn't want to take the [blood] tests, or had issues with it -- was that he blamed blood testing for the Morales loss. Thus, a cut-off date.

    So, you work out a cut-off date that takes away virtually any chance of PED effect but still gives the superstitious guy his window. That's what a negotiation is. And, again, Mayweather's medical expert(s) supposedly signed off on this, as did, allegedly, Team Mayweather.

    One person apparently did not. No fight.
     
  13. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2004
    That post you quoted...that was logical to you? Serious? :huh
     
  14. Matty lll

    Matty lll Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jan 21, 2011
    Is Manny diminishing his by not fighting Mayweather? or do you guys think that Manny has a better record in terms of opponents faced than Floyd?
     
  15. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 7, 2007
    The thinking of most boxing historians seems to be that Pacquiao's career accomplishments are greater than those of Mayweather. Thus, if that is the case, Pacquiao doesn't "need" Mayweather as much as Mayweather "needs" him.

    I've said this before: I don't think either side wants the fight now. In the past, before the Cotto fight, I think Team Mayweather wanted the fight. Then, for a while, Team Pacquiao seemed to want the fight.

    Now, neither side seems to want the fight. But, they are trying to fight over who will get the blame for the fight not happening.