Article on Dempsey and Strangler Lewis with uh, oh a mention of the two Harry’s

Well, he was wrong about "at present" matching Greb and Tunney. They faced each other a month after this article was printed.

Also, Greb had already taken a NWS over Gibbons so it shouldn't have been too unbelievable to folks that he could beat him again.

 

What impresses me is the obvious build-up already underway for the 1923 matches with Gibbons and Firpo.

Greb's victory over Gibbons is dismissed as some sort of fluke, apparently, based on the quoted opinions of Dempsey and Corbett.

Firpo hadn't really done anything yet, but he is already being mentioned as a possible opponent for Dempsey.

At least Wills wasn't dismissed out of hand.

 

I'm sure those Rickard checks didn't bounce.

 

Of course Firpo was already being talked of as an opponent for Dempsey. Thats the whole reason he was brought to the United States by Rickard to begin with.

Youve got to question an article that puts so much weight in Dempsey saying that nobody was chasing him for a Greb fight when thats exactly what was happening and his manager was ignoring those offers. As Seamus alluded this article sounds like it was written by Kearns or Rickard."Nothing to see with these legitimate challengers over here folks. But over HERE we have a guy who just got dominated by one of those guys and another guy who is totally unaccomplished but really exotic. Take your pick."

 

What do you want me to pretend that Brennan, Carpentier, Firpo, and Gibbons are tougher fights than Greb? I think Im pretty well on record as stating that I dont believe that one iota. Two of those guys got dominated in fights with Greb and the other two avoided him like the plague. If Greb has a chance of beating Dempsey or making him look bad how does that help a guy who is looking to continue promoting his cash cow? It doesnt. Furthermore, I said Kearns was the one that was ignoring offers to fight Greb and thats a proven fact. Promoters in several locations pursued Kearns, not the least of which was Pittsburgh and Kearns refused to even acknowledge them. You tell me who makes Dempsey look better? The lumbering one dimensional totally clueless clod Firpo or Greb? The fact that Dempsey got dumped three times and knocked out of the ring against that clod and looked pedestrian and boring against Gibbons tells you all you need to know.

How is the offer for Dempsey Greb in Pittsburgh laughable? They were offering him almost as much as he made against Carpentier and literally chased Kearns all the way to New York to get it signed. If Greb is such a no hoper I would think that would be easy cash for Dempsey. See thats the problem with Dempsey apologists, they are constantly forced to argue out of both sides of their mouth. They want to pretend there were no bonafide offers and when they are confronted with the fact that there absolutely were they want to pretend that either the public didnt want it or that the money wasnt enough. Did the public want Dempsey Gibbons? Because Dempsey didnt have a problem climbing into the ring before the smallest crowd of his entire championship run by far to face a guy who had lost his title elimination bout in one sided fashion? Again, if Greb is such a no hoper then why not pick up some easy money because $100,000 and 50% of the gate is a hell of a lot of money to turn your nose up at in 1922 for a fight with a guy who is supposedly no match. Sounds like easy money to me, instead Dempsey was travelling around fighting his sparring partners in exhibitions for peanuts.

I love guys who just pretend that Firpo wasnt a totally media created fighter and wasnt promoted strictly as a lamb to the slaughter for Dempsey. Go back and immerse yourself in those article from that era and then tell me Greb had no backing, there were never any serious offers, etc. If, as you say, Kearns was after $$ and if Dempsey was this unstoppable force, then $100,000 and 50% of the gate seems like an easy nights work unless you are just trying to impress future mind readers (i.e. Dempsey nuthuggers) by standing on principle and refusing to fight smaller, or less challenging fights. Unfortunately for those nuthuggers Dempsey's entire championship reign dispells this idea.

 

"Of course Firpo was already being talked of as an opponent for Dempsey. That's the whole reason he was brought to the United States to begin with."

"I'm sure those Rickard checks didn't bounce."

It is almost awe-inspiring that an unknown who hadn't yet done anything is being talked up as a championship contender. I knew Rickard could control the narrative to some extent, but not to this level.

 

Love the way certain postors like to believe that Kearns and Rickard (in fact the two of them likely completely distrusted one another) and Dempsey were the only corrupting influences in the boxing world at that time. The 3 big conspirators, everyone else was an innocent victim of their devious ways. Everything the 3 devils said was a lie, everything their rivals said was truth.

Sure they had writers on the payroll.
So did everyone else who mattered.

The same postors hang on to every favourable word and report regarding Greb or Wills as if it's pure and pristine holy gospel.
:rofl

 

No one believes or has stated they were the ONLY corrupting influence in the sport. However, by controlling the sport's greatest prize, it could easily be argued that they were the most POWERFUL corrupting influence.

 

"Kearns and Rickard (in fact the two of them probably completely distrusted one another)"

For good reason, I think,

but their interests in not matching Dempsey with the opponents who had the best chance of knocking him off coincided. It would not be a matter of trust, just of two crooks working together, like what happens in politics all the time.

"Kearns and Rickard . . . and Dempsey were the only corrupting influences in the boxing world at that time"

I don't remember posting that. They certainly were the most powerful men concerning the heavyweight division.

"pure and pristine holy gospel"

Speaking for myself, I think a lot of these newspaper reports of X seeking a fight with Y and promoters offering money should be taken with a grain of salt.

"Greb or Wills"

Bottom line is that neither in fact got a title shot. It is certainly valid the ask why, more so in the case of the big heavyweight Wills.

 

Yeah, well Rickard was actually in control of Harry Wills at least as much as he was in control of Dempsey as the time of the article.
In fact, Kearns was in control of Dempsey and they were about to sail for Europe the following week.
Wills had just a month earlier fought for Rickard at MSG against Kid Norfolk. And would fight for him again before the year was out.

Another year or more passed before Dempsey fought again and Rickard had no part of the promotion.

It's obvious that Tex Rickard in fact made a lot of money out of having Harry Wills built up as the great menace to Dempsey's title.

 

Who is worth more in the 1920s, a black heavyweight champ or a white heavyweight champ with a black threat looming just beyond arm's reach?

 

Exactly. We basically agree then.
It was in Rickard's interest to have Dempsey as champion and Wills as the threatening #1 contender.