Article on Dempsey and Strangler Lewis with uh, oh a mention of the two Harry’s

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dempsey1234, Mar 17, 2016.


  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You can find anything you want to find looking back 95 years ago at newspaper clippings not knowing the publics true mindset. Dempsey was a 190 pound hwt champion at over 6 ft one inch. Greb was a middleweight at 5'8 and 165 pounds. With five ounce horsehair filled gloves one well placed punch by Dempsey would be enough to put any middleweight in the hospital. Jack Sharkey a true hwt and former hwt champion said of Dempsey "I never thought anyone could hit that hard". Highly doubt the public wanted to see a bout between such a murderous puncher and a 5'8 middleweight.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Firstly, Greb was also the best lightheavy in the world for some time.

    Secondly, the fact that he beat the living hell out of Brennan and Miske and Gibbons... and in the first fight, Tunney... and that Carpentier avoided him like the clap... ALL BEFORE DEMPSEY BEAT THEM... might have something to say of Dempsey's preference.

    So, go on with your regurgitation of Rickard's paid promotional adverts. I have only heard that sh*te for 40 years and have been rolling my eyes the whole time.
     
  3. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Firstly, Greb was also the best lightheavy in the world for some time.

    Secondly, the fact that he beat the living hell out of Brennan and Miske and Gibbons... and in the first fight, Tunney... and that Carpentier avoided him like the clap.
    Yes I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your two points. If the demand for the fight was so great, why didn't Rickard and all his paid media lackeys build it into another million dollar gate. I am sure even Rickard wouldn't past that up even if it meant making his golden child look bad and any good/greedy promoter will see the value in a Greb - Dempsey II fite if Dempsey happened to lose. Rickard, Kearns and Dempsey, I believe were interested in making money. Why they never forced the issue to fight with the two "uncrowned" heavyweight champions, the two Harry's, who could pass up the chance to have not one but two or three million dollar gates. Yes I can see Kearns and Rickard, saying, "nah, let's continue making peanuts instead of making our golden cash cow, suffer. Money talks and everybody listens cos they want some of that loot, and Kearns and Rickard were no shrinking violets when money was involved. So again if there was such a hoop and a holler to make the two Harry's why wasn't it made? Please don't say Dempsey was afraid, cos nobody can prove that, no matter how many articles you can come up with. With Wills, it was the "colorline", but there was no such obstarcles in making the Greb fight, so why????
     
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dempsey did not think for one second any middleweight could beat him......and none would. I highly doubt the public thought for one second a middleweight was going to beat Dempsey. The poll in 1922 proves this as his name was not mentioned. So Rickard had to sell the fight.......a 165 pound 5'8 middleweight vs a 6'1 190 pound heavyweight. It would look ridiculous to promote.....a midget vs a grown man and the likelihood of a very early ko and the backlash that would create. Any though Dempsey or his people felt fear fighting Greb is pure ****. Dempsey would have put Greb in the hospital.
     
  5. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "midget"

    There is the second problem that the midget defeated the majority of Dempsey's name opponents--Tunney, Gibbons, Miske, Brennan, Levinsky, Gunboat Smith.

    What does that say about the level of opposition?
     
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Possibly.

    I just had a quick look at the light heavy situation. From what i can work out, the Light heavyweight Champion was Battling Levinskey who held the title from 1916 to 1920.

    Now, and this is the point where it would be interesting, it seems (from boxrec) that he defended his title about three times, without losing it. What is the story with this? I am presuming that because most states didnt allow decisions, Greb would have to score the KO to win the title. If Greb couldnt win the title against the light heavyweight champion, what chance would he have against the heavyweight champion?
     
  7. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I found two interesting takes on the Dempsey - Greb fight, here they are for what its worth. I expect the nitpicker will look to find some nits to pick.
    GREB IS AFTER JACK DEMPSEY
    The Washington times. (Washington [D.C.]), 17 June 1922
    By Damon Runyan
    HARRY GREB "the Pittsburgh Windmill." light heavyweight
    champion of America, desires a limited go at Jack Dempsey, heavyweight champion of the world.
    George Engel, manager of Greb, so informed the writer yesterday. "Harry will bet his end of the purse that Dempsey cannot stop him in eight or ten rounds," said Engel. However, the match is by no means ridiculous Over a long route, yes. As a sprint, no.
    If any fighter Dempsey's size had Just taken decisions over Charley Weinert, Tom Gibbons and Gene Tunney, he would be generally accorded a chance against Jack for the championship. The fact that Greb is comparatively small seems to cause many persons to think Dempsey would have an easy time with him. Yet it must be remembered that Greb's specialty is licking big men, and
    that it is the men smaller than himself who have given Dempsey the most trouble.
    Fistic World Guffawed.
    WHEN little Charley Mitchell was matched against
    big John L. Sullivan the fistic world no doubt guffawed.
    Yet Mitchell gave Sullivan a thundering battle and carried him to thirty nine rounds for a draw at Chantllly, France.
    Old-timers claim that Sullivan one of the greatest fighters
    that ever lived. He weighed 196 pounds and was 5 feet 10 1/2 inches tall. Mitchell weighed 165 pounds and was 5 feet 9 inches tall. Here is at least one case where
    the old ring adage that a good big man can always beat a good little man was set at naught And Greb has certainly proved three times hand-running that the bigger they are the higher he can climb on them. Greb is an inch shorter than Mitchell and weighs between 162 and 164 pounds. Dempsey is six feet one and a half inches tall
    and his best fighting weight is probably a little above 190 pounds.
    Dempsey gave away to Willard fully as much difference in size as there is between himself and Greb.
    Took Him Twelve Round
    STANLEY KETCHEL once attempted to concede Jack Johnson much more in point of size than Greb would be giving to Dempsey, and it took Johnson twelve rounds to cut him down. The lamented middleweight champion, one of the greatest hitters of all time, was five feet
    nine and three-quarters inches tall, and never weighed mors than 158 pounds. Johnson weighed 210 pounds, and was six feet and one half inch tall. If Greb could hit like Ketchel he would have a chance against two Dempseys in the ring at the same time. But it is the difference, in strength and hitting ability that Harry ls apt to be at greatest disadvantage with the heavyweight champion, because he has nothing in which to stop Jack from coming on, not even the threat. Tommy Burns sawed off to five feet seven Inches, and weighing 185 pounds, got a hand hold on heavyweight title by out smacking Marvin Hart, five feet eleven and one quarter inches and weighing 190 pounds, but somehow we believe Greb could have done the same thing.
    We Worked With Dempsey
    GREB has worked with Dempsey in the gymnasium. Perhaps it is on his personal knowledge of the champion's style that Harry bases his belief that he can travel a short route with him. Engel claims that Dempsey a
    noted knocker-out of sparring partners, could do nothing with Greb in the gym. George says the Pittsburgher smothered Jack's attack the same as he blanketed
    Welnert, Gibbons and Tunney. I don't pretend to believe that Greb would have any chance with
    Dempsey in fifteen rounds," said George, "and Harry has no illusions on that point. But an eight or ten-round gallop is a different proposition Jack would never catch Greb In that distance.

    QUERIES OF ALL SORTS ABOUT SPORTSBY BILLY EVANS.
    The Ogden standard-examiner., April 25, 1922
    What chance would Harry Greb have against Jack Dempsey'' Was Greb's defeat of Tommy Gibbons a decisive one?
    Of Greb or Gibbons which would make the best showing against Dempsey in your opinion?
    R D G

    Greb would have an outside chance in a bout with Jack Dempsey. After the Gibbons fight I talked such a match with Greb, and he expressed the belief that he would be able to outpoint Dempsey in 12 to 15 rounds as
    decisively as be did Gibbons. "Unless Jack should rock me to sleep before the finish," Is the way Greb put it
    Giving away from 25 to 35 pounds, as Greb would be forced to In a match with Dempsey, there would always be the danger of the big fellow putting over the knockout punch. Greb decisively outpointed Gibbons In their New York bout He had 10 of the 15 rounds. Yet pitted against Dempsey. Gibbons might make a better showing than Greb. The style that Dempsey would use differs widely to that of Greb and there would always be the chance for Gibbons to sweep over his dangerous right against the champion.