Article on Tyson vs. todays top heavyweights

Can we ban people for stupidity?

Classic always had the odd nutters, and we've all clowned around from time to time but this **** is getting out of hand.

These assholes are circle jerking almost every single ****ing thread.

Merch has already been banned a 100 times, and now he's back with friends.

 

One thing that separated Classic from most other forums is the respect posters had for one another here.
We've all got our favourite fighters, we've all gotten into heated debates, and we've had our trolls over the years, but for all that, there was still respect for other people's opinions, even if there was strong disagreement.
Discourse has been for the vast majority of the time, civil and even gentlemanly.

Dunno what's happened lately but this bull**** has got to stop. It's actually becoming worse than the general forum lately.

 

I honestly can't tell this place apart from General anymore, especially witih these guys endlessly trash talking back and forth in what feels like every other thread.

I know I've lowered myself to their level by calling them out but its just absurd.

You took the time to make a well researched post and this Foxy guy responds with a profane laced tirade, and you weren't even talking to him.

 

Mendonza's Pro Aryan and Pro Klitschko agenda persists I see. The Klitschko's unlike some of their fans aren't racists but some of their fans wouldn't be fans if their skin was of a different colour.

Vitali has never fought near to the type of class of a Prime Tyson, not close, no not even a 38yo past it Lewis is close and that aside his competition has been seriously pitiful. Even with that competition Lewis stopped him, Byrd made him quit, a fat old Sanders put him on his bike and Arreola and Chisora snatched a few rounds off him. I like Vitali but he makes critical technical errors that favour pressure fighters.

Tyson forces Vitali back, Vitali leans back to avoid punches and Tyson punishes this by following up with brutal combinations.

Wlad if trained properly to fight inside could beat Tyson but he hasn't developed to be able to do that, he still panics and does anything not to fight inside. If you can't fight inside and punish Tyson inside you can't beat him because he closes the gap without being hit so well.

 

He did the same in another thread, so ive blocked him

Jon Saxon, Foxy01, Merchants Ghost are all the same person, alt accounts.

******s like that need to be banned.

This place has become just like the current heavyweight division,

full of ****.

 

Pretty much how i see it, i also wanted to add, that i have question marks around Vitalis 'heart', in the chisora fight there were times, when it seemed like he was going to quit. A better fighter, especially a guy like Tyson who thrives on that, would get him out of there.

 

I do think Vitali would test Tyson far more than anyone else on that list though, including Wlad.
He would be a worthy opponent.

 

So he's actually arguing with himself in some of these threads ? My god.

atsch

Carry on..

 

Are you saying Rahman KO'd the same Lewis that Vitali couldnt? Kind of
defeats all your assertions of Vitalis greatness with that statement

 

Eh, maybe the Byrd fight. But he did continue to trade shots with Lewis despite being blinded in one eye.

I don't think he was going to quit against Chisora, maybe uncomfortable a few times but at this stage of his career I can't see a case for him beating a prime Tyson. He looked so slow against Charr for instance. Mike could probably get a point win over this version of Vitali by just weaving around him and popping him with his jab like the Tucker fight.

 

Ok maybe quit was too strong a word, but Chisora def made Vitali feel uneasy and Chisora, limited and unexperienced as he was, bought it to Vitali. The last time anyone tried that was Lewis.

 

Do you think the Tyson of the Holmes fight would have trouble with Vitali of today? jw

 

Not at all.

Vitali doesn't have the legs he used to have. Once the legs start to go, effectively you're living on borrowed time.

 

One day someone is going to make a fortune by writing a bestseller quoting the hysterical excuses from Tyson freaks, and *******s regarding their respective heroes defeats.

 

For me the key to winning a fight with Vitali for Tyson is the jab and left hook.

I watched the Tucker fight again since it's about the closest blueprint I can think of as to how a fight between the two would unfold.

For the first three or four rounds, Tucker would occasionally quit moving and throw a jab and right hand, sometimes coming back with the left hook. Occasionally the right hand would be substituted for a right uppercut.

Now the thing is this: due to Tucker being so much taller, he usually had to reach in with the jab and right hand. Tyson would dip to the left to avoid the right hand and come back with his hook to either the head or body.
Invariably, Tucker got the worst of it. By the middle rounds, Tyson had negated the right hand almost completely, and Tucker was reduced to jabbing and moving, but not doing much else.
He was simply paying too high a price by throwing the right hand because he was getting caught with the left hook too much.

It was the movement that really bothered Tyson in this fight more than anything else. Tyson needed to set his feet to throw those fast combinations, and Tucker simply made sure that he was not there to be hit with anything more than one punch at a time.
His movement really was pretty good in this fight. If he caught a shot, he would dance away or move in and tie Tyson up.
But at the same time, his offensive choices were very limited due to Tyson timing the right hand and coming in under it with his hooks. Tucker's uppercut was also pretty much
absent by this point because, unlike in the first round when he dipped straight down and got caught, Tyson started dipping to the left to avoid the uppercut, and it was paying dividends.

So in the end, the fight became a case of Tucker moving and jabbing but not being an offensive force at all, and Tyson's opportunities being limited because Tucker did not allow himself to become a stationary target. This is when Tyson's jab started to come more and more into effect, because he was able to land that punch without much problem right throughout the fight.

I watched this fight back-to-back with some of Vitali's fights, and the difference between Tucker and Vitali is that Tucker moved a lot more than Vitali does, and as I said above, it was Tucker's movement that caused Tyson problems. Tucker's hands are also quicker.

Whenever Tucker planted his feet to throw a jab/right hand, he became stationary just long enough for Tyson to catch him with something.
Tucker, who weighed 220 for the Tyson fight, has less bulk to carry around than Vitali, who weighs in the region of 245-250. I don't think Vitali could possibly keep up the sort of movement that Tucker did for 12 rounds.
Does he need to? I think he does. He needs to keep Tyson at bay, and he does not employ the same jab/grab style that Wlad does. Vitali is generally more offensive-minded than Wlad and less adept at tying up his man in close.

I don't see Tyson having any particular problem with Vitali's right hand, which reaches the target a little slower than Tucker's did. I think he'd dip to the left and bring up his hook, just like he did with Tucker. Vitali would also have to reach in just as Tucker did, due to the height difference between the two men.
Tyson would be coming in, dipping in, making himself even shorter and harder to hit.

Reaching in means placing your weight on the front foot, and it's impossible to move and punch at the same time when most or all the weight is placed on the front foot.
Since movement was so critical to Tucker, he realised that he could not fire the right hand without reaching in and getting caught with the hook.

I have to wonder how Vitlali's skin would hold up after a few rounds. Lewis cut him up pretty badly with perfectly legal punches, and I have to wonder if Tyson manages to land his hooks, if Vitali's skin is going to hold up to the impact.

Tucker had some early success by ending his combinations with the left hook. He was able to fire the hook and move away at the same time. Ending the combo with the hook meant that Tyson had to stay dipped to avoid it, but with his feet set. He could not get into range because Tucker by this point was already moving away.

But again, Tyson began to time the right hand, and by the time Tucker was about to unleash his hook, Tyson's hook was already in the air and en route to the target. Unless Tucker was willing to put great faith in his chin, there was really no other option than to keep moving, moving and occasionally tying up. Once his right hand was neuatralised, Tucker as an offensive force was spent.

I see a similar outcome unfolding in a fight between Tyson and Vitali. Vitali relies a lot on the right hand, and here I don't think it would be an effective weapon once Tyson started to time it.
Tyson has significantly faster hands and is simply more explosive than Vitali. In a contest between Vitali's right and Tyson's left, I would heavily hedge my bets that Tyson's left would be the more effective weapon, and one that would do the most and more significant damage.
Tyson at his best was also extremely hard to catch cleanly, and Viatli would have his work cut out trying to land clean, effective punches. At least, not without being countered with something big in return.

Vitali does have decent movement, but I just don't think it's enough on it's own to help him to win the fight. I also strongly doubt that he'd be able to be an elusive target for 12 rounds as was Tucker. 245-250 is a lot of weight to carry around for 12 rounds with Tyson in your face the whole time.

Tyson was not infallible, far from it. He tended to fling himself into clinches too often and as said, great movement gave him problems. He could become frustrated if he was not able to land his shots.

That said, I just can't see Vitali having that sort of impact on Tyson's psyche. He to my mind, just doesn't have that sort of guile. Vitali is a warrior and he comes to fight. I very much doubt he would settle for merely lasting the distance, happy to avoid not getting knocked out.
Then again, Tucker also came to fight but was simply hoping to survive at the end. He knew better than to stand there and engage, since he got a taste of that and didn't like what came back at him. So one never knows for sure.

Either way, it's hard for me to see a Vitali win. I believe his right hand will not be a significant factor in this fight, not without him getting hit with counter hooks. He's just not elusive enough.
So to my mind, it will become a slow, methodical breakdown of the big Ukrainian, round after round. I can see Vitali being gassed and bleeding, resorting to jabbing and trying to tie Tyson up. He has a good chin so I doubt it would be a quick blowout, but in the end I believe Vitali would lose a lopsided decision or get stopped in the mid to late rounds.