Arum: Ali's camp believes Liston is a "Coward and Quitter"

This I do not agree with. Ali's edge over Liston is speed. Without it he's dead meat.
Using the Foreman is a bad example, since Liston was more skilled than Foreman and would destroy Ali if he had him on the ropes.
Not to mention that fight took place in the excruciating heat of Zaire.

 

Half of those benefitted from modern nutrition, training and "juices", Holyfield being the best example.
Also, you are not taking into account the fact that Liston had only fought a gran total of just 2 rounds against Patterson and was drinking heavily instead of training.

 

No, only Lewis of those benfitted from modern nutrition. Willlard was born long before even your idea of when Liston was. Haven't even mentioned Holy,, since he was past his prime at 34.

 

My bad, I though you mentioned Holyfield and Moorer also. Instead you said Moore, I misread.
But we still have Wlad and Lewis, so that's 2.
Also, boxers peak and/or decline at a different age. Sonny was not properly prepared, and was a heavy drinker, that definitely takes its toll.
Not to mention that he was probably over 40 at the time.

As for Holyfield, he was juiced to the gills at 34, he was still a top HW.

 

He was 7 months removed from his probably best performance, was what he was. The Liston that bulldozed Patterson was not a past prime fighter. Ali came off almost getting KO'd by Cooper.

It's reasonable to say that Liston didn't train hard enough, but much of the rest is fairly baseless.

 

I Ali was just entering his prime and Liston near the end of his. Ali most likely prepared better, though.

 

Just throw a projectile at him and run lol

 

I would never come back after throwing that projectile, Lol.

 

Or it maybe false and Ali's haters can't accept that.

 

Oh what a load of Bravo sierra ! Wow, news flash, Ali's corner doesn't believe it was fixed! Of course not, they're supporting their fighter. To admit what everyone knows that Liston threw the fight diminishes Ali's win. Liston was a coward? if someone fought back he quit? Tell that to Cleveland Williams. This is nothing but damnable lies.

 

I believe that when Sonny Liston knocked out Floyd Patterson in Sept 1962 to win the title, he stopped a champion who was very intimidated, but when he faced Muhammad Ali in Feb 1964, he faced a challenger that was so confident and very skilled, that Sonny as I posted before, Liston thought that Ali was a blowhard, a guy that was a complete gimmick. So Sonny felt that he did not have to train.

 

Yep, it has gone properly insane. I've seen this version of Liston compared to the Louis that lost to Rocky and even to the Ali that lost to Holmes (by Tyson fans, for some reason). Fighters that hadn't had truly convincing performances for many years and had been viewed as past their best for a long, long time. Liston was seen as someone who would dominate for a long time and far superior to the rest of the division.

 

Laughed out loud when you called Chuck Wepner "one of the top heavyweights of that era". I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. You know nothing about Boxing and more specifically Liston in general.

 

Liston's best performance was against Williams, not against Patterson.
Patterson was simply a small HW who was no match from Liston.
The Liston that beat Patterson was not better than the Liston that beat Williams.

The fact that Liston did not train hard enough is all it takes for him to lose, especially at that age.