Arum tells marquez the road to pacquiao is through valero

no question that we missed it out but it is noones fault. not pac, not jmm, not mab nor em. you got to take what is given you. given lemons, make a lemmonade.

and to insist on it like nallege is beyond logic since a fighter cannot insist on fighting prime for prime all the time.

 

you came to a Pac-JMM thread looking for a non-bitching zone? :think

 

I agree with all of this, I personally have Duran way higher than Leonard

 

Marco Antonio Barrera got his signature wins against prime undefeated fighters. I also take his skill set into account when rating him above Manny Pacquiao, who I feel has been fortunate with some of his decisions.

I think the best version of Marquez and Morales that he fought both beat him, and that his victory over De La Hoya was tainted.

Now, I could just look at Boxrec and come to the conclusion that he beat prime Oscar, Morales, Marquez, Barrera, and that he could be considered not only the greater of the four, but perhaps a top 10 P4P rated fighter of all time. On paper, his resume would garner that sort of accolade.

 

Well if I'm right you'll make up something else because you like conflict.:rasta

 

I was referring to personal comments, that's all. I can ***** about fighters all day, just don't want to have a merry-go-round of stupid personal insults, which Jeff and I are prone to indulging in.

 

i am a huge duran and srl fan SK. that is the time i got hooked with boxing. no need really to sweat the small stuff in matter since they fought in a different era.

 

im not insisting on anything. but you said H2H pac has the best record so he must be top. i say you could only apply that logic if they primed at the same time. they didnt. no ones fault. but it does make your arguement that pac should be top based on H2H encounters irrelevant.

 

Well, this is my point. You seem to rate Leonard based off his victories over fellow ATG's, but seem to be forgetting that Duran had no business being competitive with those guys in the first place. He was a Lightweight, and fighting ATG Welterweights and Middleweights, and not only remaining competitive, but often winning. His reign at 135 warranted ATG status alone, let alone everything else he achieved afterwards.

 

i am a war movie junkie. so definitely i love conflict. i love boxing and there is nothing better to exemplify conflict between men than two fighters beating each other up.

this is a boxing forum jeff, conflict is an essential element of it. this is not some pier piper class wherein you come in with your flute and expect all of us to follow your valero nuthugging ways like some mindless rats. :yep

 

srl and duran is debatable and i would not cry a river over this. but the fact that you deleted the portion on my comment regarding ali and homes just goes to show that I am correct on that one.

 

You miss the point. Conflict is inevitable, but no matter how right I will ever be about something you'll discredit it. Some conflict is good, some is pointless.:rasta

 

Are we point scoring? :verysad

Nobody is crying a river, as you rightly pointed out to Jeff, this is place of discussion. Conflict equals drama and without it, we'd all be in agreement with Harrison that Manny is an indestructible force at any weight, including 147lb.

I think to rate Leonard over Duran, disregarding Robertos' reign at Lightweight and what he accomplished up at Middleweight is too be wrong. You have every opportunity to refute that.

 

wrong again. i said wholistic, head to head plus records against fellow HOF and ATG.

that is why SK ali vs. holmes strategy does not hold water.

pac beat a prime mab. beat a prime jmm(regardless of endless debates) and bead a little past prime EM.

pac, em and mab have had better opposition the last 8 years or so in their prime fighting years.

 

"Wrong again"?

Actually, here is what you said.....



statistics wise, it should be



1. pac. -since he won against all the 3 fighters.

2. em/mab-too close to call. ( but i am a huge EM fan)

3. mab/em-too close to call.

4. JMM- he won against a past prime mab but still got decked in the process. got KD 5 times by pac and i am sure would have kissed the canvass if he met my mexican idol EM.