As much as i hated Naz, in his prime, he is very under-rated

Hamed had trouble with Alicea?? Someone delete this thread ffs.

 

Read the initial post again rather than simply the bits you want to read! I neither said nor implied that, I stated it was obviously not going to be as easy against a modern day legend! However, as I stated, rather than simply using the "boxrec" approach I make my own mind up by watching and reviewing the fights and judging on what I see.

For the record, I'm not even a fan of Hamed, I think the guy is a tosser tbf, but I try to be fair enough not to let that affect my judgement of him as a fighter. And in the interests of balanced judgement when I see a myth being peddled and magnified which is blatantly untrue, I am going to call it!

On the subject of fighters who have held a world title, I take the point to an extent, however, it is a flawed premise on which to base your whole argument. I present exhibits Herol Graham (never won a title) and Markus Beyer (won three) for your consideration. Also, am I right in thinking that well known pound for pound elite Robbie Peden never won a world title?

 

First knockdown of his career? One of the only legitimate KDs of his career that had nowt to do with him being off balance? Nah? OK then.

 

Yawn. What a tired tactic it is to just shout "Boxrec!" every time someone knows more about a fighter's career than you. My previous post presented my opinion perfectly, I can't be bothered rehashing it. Your comments about me are a feeble riposte to my comments on Hamed. It's a fitting conclusion to this that you don't seem to understand that all the fighters Hamed fought from that list who didn't win a world title were garbage - Robbie Peden was not. Taking it each case on its merits really is a skill you could do with learning.

 

What? It was partly due to his balance.

Stop it. Just stop posting :nut.

 

I guarantee you do not know more about Hamed's career than I do. Equal maybe. I was a big fan of his until about 1999 when his arrogance and know-all attitude started to **** me off (until then I actually thought it was all an act for the cameras). The driving incident plus various other stories turned me off him big time and now I think he's a tit. Nonetheless, it's pointles to deny the man could fight. As for the boxrec thing it's simply an acknowledgement of the fact that to argue that fighters are good or not based on whether they win a world title in this day and age is foolhardy in the extreme.

Peden did actually win a world title, IBF super feather in the second campbell fight. I simply threw that one in to see if you'd notice ;-) However, the point remains he was far from even close to an elite fighter. And as for taking every case on it's merits, do you not see that's precisely what I'm doing here? See previously comment about Herol Graham never winning a world title whilst Markus Beyer is a three-time champ. And judging fighters by what I see of them in the ring, my own eyes' view of their performance rather than coming out with the understandable to an extent but somewhat limited and arbitrary argument about them fighting a certain number of world champs.

To sum up, IMHO the Prince's absolute peak was from about 95 (Robinson fight) to early 98 (Vazquez fight). During that time there was the odd abberation, sloppy first few rounds against Kelly, a few hard times against Medina, but mostly he was mullering everyone. The later you go, the more frequent the unimpressive showings become and against opponents who (Barrera apart) were no better than the Vazquez's Robinsons, Johnsons, Medinas etc... When you take into account the out-of the ring factors I saw such as the marked deterioration in his own ring style, the **** taking out of Ingle in the McCullough fight and subsequent split, the yes-men brothers taking over his entire career and the shoddy attitude to traing we saw in the documentary on the Barrera fight, plus the fact he was already a multi-millionaire I think its clearly the sign of a man who didn't make the most of his talents.

Anyway that's a summary of my view and if you don't agree fair enough but I hope you can respect it and see where I'm coming from. peace, out (of this thead!)

 

he is only under-rated by some Americans

almost everyone else understands what a incredibly gifted and special fighter Naz was

 

No what matters is you tried to make a point ( a silly one at that ) and have been owned, like a ***** :hi:

 

and bitter bitter jocks :good

 

PLEASE, please for the love of GOD, get onto youtube or into your back catalogue and watch the Alicea knockdown with your own eyes, because this is becoming ridiculous. Have you ever seen Hamed fight, or is this all some hoax to irritate me?

I think we have an alias with an axe to grind here! :admin

 

Journeyman doesn't do you justice, you little nobody. Read this thread again and see that I produced by far the more compelling and substantiated arguments. Or don't, and just **** off instead :hi:

 

Your problem is that you keep attempting to defend Hamed against an attack that doesn't exist. I am not nor have I ever been saying he wasn't a good boxer, he definitely was, but I do think he is often highly overrated - because people saw him looking spectacular in beating up a combination of tomato-can nobodies and washed-up 'names' early in his career.

Once he stepped up the level of competition a bit, as has been demonstrated, he didn't look so hot on a regular basis. Despite that, he produced the best performance of his career against the best opponent he ever beat v Vuyani Bungu in 2000. This was only a year before he lost to Barrera - who exposed the weaknesses that had always been inherent in his game, first evidence of which was in the 1996 fight v Daniel Alicea.

Your comments about Peden, Beyer and Graham are irrelevant, the fact is if you look at each of Hamed's opponents objectively and in isolation, the standard was clearly lower 95-97 (his supposed Golden Age) than it was 98-00. Some old bollocks about Graham and Beyer and some tired old 'trick' regarding Peden that I neither addressed nor 'fell for', does not change the facts I posted earlier:

Look at the guys he fought from when he won the WBO title:

Robinson, Lawal, Alicea, Medina, Molina, Johnson, Hardy, Badillo, Cabrera.
(3 out of the 9 ever held a world title, 1 of them was Robinson who was NEVER a top level fighter, the other 2 were past prime)

The only decent fighters there were Medina and Johnson, and they were well past-prime when he fought them. The rest were tomato-cans, any top fighter could've danced around with no guard bouncing combinations off their skulls.

Look at the guys he fought 97-01:

Kelley, Vasquez, McCullough, Soto, Ingle, Bungu, Sanchez, Barrera
(7 out of 8 ever held a world title- Barrera is an ATG, Bungu a very good fighter, arguably Kelley & McCullough were too)

Far stronger opposition (note- stronger, not 'strong'. His resume is pretty shabby)



This evidence is far stronger than your assumptions on his mentality and training and tactics garnered from watching some fly-on-the-wall documentary.

Anyway, I agree we have done this to the death and won't change each others' minds. I believe Hamed was a fighter with great natural gifts who never worked hard enough to develop boxing skills of equal quality. He looked sensational beating mediocre opposition, was slightly less hot when the quality of his opponents improved, and he was finally exposed when he met a fighter of genuine greatness. Exposed as a good fighter but not a great one.

IMO. :good

 

I did before I posted . Had to check whether the old memory was failing.....it wasn't:tong.

The kd was pretty much how I remember. Just before the kd Alicea caught Hamed on the button with a right that snapped his head back, then landed another which didn't seem as hard but knocked him over.

He got up unhurt at the count of zero. I always thought it was more his balance & the force of the shot, as he was leaning back when he got hit but maybe you're right & it just caught him on the sweet spot:smoke.

Alicea always reminded me of a mini McClellan without the chin.