Aside from Ali , who beats Lennox?

Exactly. There was health concerns.

Yet Supposedly Frazier was the same guy against Ron Stander...and George Foreman..that he was against Ali!

It is not possible.

 

If Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman could land...so could Louis...Marciano...Dempsey....and the list goes on!!!.

 

Tyson, Foreman, Bowe, Holmes, Liston, V. Klitschko, Louis ...

 

Could is not Would.

When did any of the above ever face the combination of skill, athleticism, strength and size that Lewis brought to the ring?

 

There is certainly scope for many Champions.

Lewis was a good champion, the best of his era as it turned out, but it's just silly to say only Ali can beat him. And outright ridiculous to rule certain ones out altogether.

All champions will lose against other ATG fighters at some point.

 

I read the Wikipedia page too. I can see you left out vital information about what guys who were ringside said.

"It was a good right-hand punch," Liston said after the fight. "It made me groggy. I got to my knees but fell the second time because I was off balance....I could have got up, but I didn't hear the count."

After the fight, [url]George Chuvalo[/url] climbed through the ropes and shoved Ali, yelling, "Fix!" He was restrained, but later he said that he had seen Liston's eyes while the challenger was on the floor, and he knew that he was not in bad shape. "His eyes were darting from side to side like this," he said, darting his eyes from side to side. "When a fighter is hurt his eyes roll up." However, Dr. Carroll L. Witten, former Kentucky State Boxing Commissioner, who had studied the reactions of knocked out fighters, said, "Chuvalo is wrong. The side-to-side movement of eyes is commonly associated with temporary unconsciousness and is one of the first things you look for. It is called [url]nystagmus[/url]."

[url]Larry Merchant[/url] wrote 50 years later, "I saw the actual punch land on the actual chin, as did others in my area of the press section. It was a quick right hand that caught Liston as he was coming forward ... According to ringside doctors I've spoken to, that is a classic example of a medulla-oblongata K.O."

World Light Heavyweight Champion [url]José Torres[/url] said, "It was a perfect punch."

[url]Jim Murray[/url] of the [url]Los Angeles Times[/url] wrote that it was "no phantom punch." Tex Maule of Sports Illustrated wrote, "The blow had so much force it lifted Liston's left foot, upon which most of his weight was resting, well off the canvas."

[url]James J. Braddock[/url], said the suspect Ali right hand merely finished up what an earlier punch had begun. "I have a feeling that this guy (Ali) is a lot better than any of us gave him credit for," Braddock said. "It isn't the knockout punch that sticks in my mind as much as a punch he let go (earlier)....It was a right to Liston's jaw and it shook him to his shoetops. For all we know, it could have been the one that set up the knockout."

Another former champion, [url]Rocky Marciano[/url], changed his view about the knockout punch after seeing videotape the next day. "I didn't think it was a powerful punch when I saw the fight from ringside," Marciano said. "Now (after seeing video) I think Clay, seeing the opening, snapped the punch the last six inches."

 

Very doubtful that Williams hit harder than Liston and if he did then that just undermines his skill level even more than it already was.

Again, that's one puncher he faced in his career who wasn't very good to begin with. Joe Louis fought tons of punchers multiple times. Schmeling 2x, Max Baer, Buddy Baer 2x, Tony Galento, Rocky Marciano, Lou Nova, Tami Mauriello, Joe Walcott, Charley Retzlaff.

Outcome 2 ko losses (Marciano and Schmeling). Furthermore he had to take beatings over the course of the fight, it wasn't just a single round deal.

 

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I don't believe THAT punch could've done THAT to Liston. Don't see it. It may not have been a fix per se, but he certainly gave up and chose not to rise when he could have. Either way, people were cheated of an actual fight for the HW Championship of the World

 

You asked for evidence it was fixed. Not other people's testimonies it wasn't.

 

Agreed

Williams was an amazing fighter before he got shot.

You think Williams was the only puncher he faced?

Do you actually know anything about Liston?

 

I would ask everyone to watch just the first two rounds of each of these fights. And honestly let me know what you think. I don't mind either way. I am interested in what people think after viewing these two rounds of both fights. Both in the same New York ring. Frazier in his last important win versus Lewis trained by Manny Steward.

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Williams was not an amazing fighter before he got shot. He was good but not amazing. Its starting to sound like your ranking of Liston relies heavily on Williams' stock and in my opinion you're overrating Cleveland Williams. Williams never had any great wins, neither did he have much of a chin. Prior to Liston he got knocked out cold by Bob Satterfield.

Please name these renowned punchers that Liston faced.