Aside from Wills and Langford, who are the best men of his day Dempsey never fought?

Norfolk beat Miske twice, one sided in fact.

He also beat Smith. but if youd care to we can make the same assessment of all of Miskes opponents as well, his run leading up to his title shot would be enough, combined with the two losses to Norfolk to illustrate he was a far less dangerous opponent than Norfolk for Dempsey. We need even need to go into the fact that he was dying and Dempsey knew it...

The point in showing Norfolk heating top LHWs like Siki is valid for the simple fact that Dempsey defended against primarily career LHWs. Carpentier, Miske, Gibbons, and Tunney all fought primarily LHWs so if one of Norfolks better wins was a guy who knocked out one of Dempseys challengers why shouldnt it be valid?

 

I'd agree with this ( Norfolk being good opponent for Dempsey ) , and Dempsey vs Brennan is filmed to judge. Brennan was actually in the lead for a while.

Was Norfolk worthy of a title shot in your opinion, Klompton? If so at what date?

 

Norfolk beat John Lester Johnson ( who gave Dempsey a very tough fight ), Miske, who gave Dempsey a very tough fight, and Jim Battling Johnson.

He also beat Jeannette who Dempsey decided to met as a sub in, and GunBoat Smith. Once again, bigger fighters

His lack of size wasn't an issue, and the guys I listed were close to Dempsey's size or bigger.

 

I’ll say Norfolk deserved a shot more than some that got it. He kicked Miskes ass, prob would have beat Brennan, would have slaughtered Carp, and both Tunney and Gibbons avoided him. Gibbons eventually fought him but it was years after the match was interesting. It should be noted that Miske never really wanted to fight Norfolk either and several proposed matches with him were backed out of by Miske. At least one of these was a rematch in Boston of their Boston fight and Boston writers all agreed that Miske was headed to another ass kicking and chose discretion as the better part of valor.

 

Carpentier beat heavies so did Gibbons ,Miske and Tunney.Siki beat whom at the weight? Norfolk beat Jeannette and Gunboat Smith who says this? Miske's condition is known as is the fact that he went on a long winning streak after facing Dempsey and he sure took a long time dying!Four years after he fought Dempsey in fact!

 

Siki was never ranked at heavyweight by any reputable body ,and after beating Carpentier he lost his next 3 fights! He was never a viable contender for any title after losing to McTigue!

Johnson was 40 when he came out of prison and he did not fight for 3 years he was a back number!

 

Who did he beat during Dempsey's title tenure to suggest he deserved title shot?

 

Yeah, he fought Dempsey right after a years layoff from a forced retirement because his health was so bad. He got a title shot by going 1-2-2 in his last five fights and that one win was against a complete nobody. He entered the ring looking pale a sickly and was knocked out with bodyshots by a guy who knew he was dying of kidney disease. If you want to argue that he was a better challenger than a guy who dominated him twice so be it, ill let their mutual records and historys speak for themselves. Just like Ill let Carpentiers history of beating no heavyweight worth a damn and getting knocked out by the guy Norfolk brutalized speak for itself. Just like Ill let the fact that after Dempsey nearly lost to Norfolks sparring partner he was told to steer clear of Norfolk speak for itself. Just like Ill let the fact that Tommy Gibbons avoided numerous offers by promoters to fight Norfolk for SEVEN YEARS until Norfolk started looking old speak for itself. Like I said, the record tells the story, Norfolk would have been at least as qualified as half the men Dempsey CHOSE to fight rather than face the men actually posing a threat to him.

 

I can play that game too:

Who did Miske beat to get a title shot?

Who did Brennan beat to get a title shot?

Who did Carpentier beat to get a title shot?

Gibbons?

Firpo?

Tunney?

Who were these phenomenal heavyweights these guys beat to get to the big dance? Willard, who had won one fight over a journeyman in 7 years for Firpo? The other guys primarily built their recordsup on LHWs and retreads so its not like Norfolk was doing less than everyone else. He was easily as qualified as most.

 

I am well aware that Wills got screwed repeatedly, but that does not change the fact that Rickard basically threw him a lifeline, after the Bill Tate debacle.

He could have used it to get rid of Wills for a few years if he had wanted to.

 

No I don't want to argue about Miske , my contention is Norfolk was exposed against Wills and would not have been a serious threat to Dempsey ,that' s all. Its just my opinion .

 

Johnson was nearly 42 when he came out of prison and 45 when he resumed his career he was not a SERIOUS CONTENDER for any sort of honours after leaving Leavenworth.He was barred from fighting in at least 6 states including NY ,he was seriously past his sell by date.Johnson was never a ranked contender after he was released from prison.

 

I see certain parallels between the Miske that Dempsey fought, and the Cleveland Williams that Ali fought.

Both were diminished physically, but held high ranking on paper, due to their momentum from earlier work.

You can argue that it was the champions job to recognize their ranking, and perhaps the fact that they were overdue a title shot.

You can argue that the champion was giving them a much needed pay day as an act of philanthropy.

You can argue that the champion should have fought somebody else, because they were not a serious threat head to head.

You can take whatever view you want in either case, but what goes for one must go for the other.

 

Miske fought 3 months before he faced Dempsey for the title.
Carpentier had not lost a fight in7 years and that one was a disputed dec to Jeannette.Carpentier was the Euro heavyweight champ and drew a million dollar gate,someone must have thought it worth matching him with Dempsey!
Tunney hadn't lost in the previous 4 years and had beaten Gibbons ,Greb,Carpentier,Madden & Herman.
Firpo had beaten,McCauliffe,Willard,Brennan,Smith,Weinert,and hadn't lost in the
previous 4 years.

 

I would argue that Miske beat better men after being ko'd by Dempsey than Williams did after being stopped by Ali.
He had a further 22 fights and lost none of them!