Assessing Ezzard Charles and M. Saad Muhammad's Technical Skills

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Sep 16, 2018.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Based on existing footage, how would you assess Charles and Muhammad's technique, mechanics, and skills? What similarities and differences do you see? In which fights, or better yet rounds, are these things most vividly on display? Do you see any flaws or weaknesses?

    I'm hoping we can have a thread where people talk about the film, unlike the usual "who's greater" arguments, where people mostly regurgitate boxrec stats and conventional wisdom stuff they've read elsewhere. We'll see...
     
  2. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Saad had well rounded offensive skills. He was also versatile in that he could move and box or stand and slug. He also was a very good body puncher. His main weakness was, of course, defense. His defense was decent when he moved and boxed. It was quite mediocre when he stood in front of his opponent or when he fought on the inside. Marvin Johnson jerked his head back violently with uppercuts again and again in both of their fights, but Saad's iron chin, conditioning and will allowed him to walk through him. And Johnson had good punching power.
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Charles was far better in every department apart from power.
     
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  4. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    That's not what he asked
     
  5. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good post
     
  6. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Good assessment
    The Saad vs Kate's and the 2 Johnson fights are a must an absolute must watch.
    Saad was a good boxer puncher with a strong jab and heavy power in both hands.
    He went from being that above mentioned very good boxer puncher to a fighter who relied on his power to win which he clearly did until he ran into Braxton. Not to take anything away from Braxton but Matt's best days were behind him which everybody knows.
    While Matt was no master boxer his skills get overlooked because of his brawling capabilities.
     
  7. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
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  8. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    There`s no film study on Saad, I don`t know if there are any highlights clips.
     
  9. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    At about 20 seconds into the Charles Footwork and Defense video, Charles moves his left foot forward, and leaves his right foot back effectively putting himself into a split where he couldn't move or respond until he either moved his left foot back or his right foot forward. If that is a "highlight" of his footwork, I'm not impressed. At about 2:42 he was off balance again because he moved his front foot and left his back foot behind. Again, not impressive footwork. These people who do "film studies" often don't know what they are watching.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I woudn’t go to sleep on Saad’s jab. It wasn’t flashy but he pumped it steadily and with purpose.

    Yaqui Lopez and John Conteh were supberb artists with their left leads and MSM was able to hand with them from the outside and, ultimately, wear them down with that heavy jab to set up the kill.
     
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  11. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    A lot of times, and I think it is the case in this video, he is cheating with his left foot. Buddy McGirt did it a lot, too. You slide your left foot forward without moving the right foot to gauge a reaction. If the opponent throws a punch, you pull back and counter or, if he does nothing and you are looking to get inside, you bring your right foot along. In the first clip Charles stepped in, didn't get a reaction and stepped back out.

    On the other hand, if you watch most current fighters throwing the left hook, they are pushing off the left foot and no weight is transferring onto the right foot. This is a direct result of stepping in with the jab but not moving the right foot in turn. That creates balance issues as you are perched on one foot as you reach for the body shot and, as noted previously, you are stuck until you move back to a solid base. That is taught in gyms today and you see it all the time.
     
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  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    What's taught in gyms today--stepping with your jab without bringing your back foot with you and getting your weight back onto your back foot? That's surprising because both of the coaches I worked with during my limited time in the gym were sticklers about that. Was kind of annoying at times but I guess I was lucky that they took the time to show me good fundamentals.
     
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  13. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    You were, at least in my experience. I see that a lot, step with the jab, right hand, hook, without moving the right foot.
     
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  14. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nice discussion. I do believe that when feinting a jab the fighter should move the front foot too, but not much and he should bring it back immediately after the feint or he should move the right foot up. In the video Charles moved the front foot a long way, IMO, too far to maintain good balance. I agree that Charles was trying to gauge his opponent's reaction, but IMO, he could have done it with a shorter slide of the foot. I was surprised to see it in a video of "footwork highlights." To me, one of the most important fundamentals of boxing is if a fighter moves one foot, he should move the other foot the same amount, leaving him in his stance.

    A lot of fighters do throw a hook without the weight transfer to the back foot. To me a hook without the weight transfer is just a bent arm jab. The hook is IMO the most difficult punch to teach and the most difficult to learn. Some never do.
     
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  15. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    You probably remember the old saying "don't reach, move your feet." I don't hear it much any more, unless I'm saying it.
     
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