Assessing Larry Holmes's all time heavyweight standing

Ali, Louis, Holmes.

 

I have him at 2 atg heavyweight, personally.

 

HOLMES LACKING X FACTOR???

If anything Lennox Lewis is the one who lacks X-Factor.

The Larry Holmes X-Factor is how a guy who is not a big puncher nor an absolutely perfect fighter keeps finding ways to win in the most dire moments and amaze with great performances of ring generalship and boxing skill.

The lack of Lennox Lewis X-factor is how a guy with so many attributes and advantages consistently fails to impress despite winning and can’t get off the canvas against average punchers and should’ve lost to ****ing Mercer.

What great championship performance does LL have??? That’s right. None. Look at his poor showing against an ancient Holyfield in the rematch, Mavrovic, Tua, Biggs etc. The guy was frankly an underachiever for all of his ‘on paper’ talents, compared to one of THE great overachievers in Larry Holmes.

Watch Holmes vs Norton/Cooney/Witherspoon. The guy is pure class.

If anybody ranks Lewis above Holmes on the ATG list or thinks Lewis was the best fighter then they just don’t get it!

 

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Lewis
4. Wlad
5. Tyson
6. Holmes

 

Have at different times ranked him at 3,4 and 5.Keep changing my mind,certainly can`t rank him any lower than 5

 

Oh and it’s not for sure if Lewis has the better resume either. 80s contenders were 100% better than 90s contenders. Holmes at 42 taking Mercer to school should end any debate about that.

When people start listing out Lewis’ resume it does look amazing. But the 2 big names on his resume are there in name only. A lot of the guys had been beaten badly before Lewis fought them as well. And, on the whole, 90s contenders are very overrated fighters.

If Lewis had fought a young Holyfield/Bowe/Tyson I’d say this isn’t close. But the fact is of his generation the best he fought was a washed Holyfield and borderline shot (I don’t like using this term too much btw) Tyson.

Put it this way nobody on Lewis’ resume has a chance of beating prime Larry Holmes.

From Holmes’ resume: Spinks, Mercer, Norton, Witherspoon, Shavers, Cooney all have a very good chance to win. ‘Oh Norton and Spinks can’t handle punchers!!!’. The problem is Lewis doesn’t jump on guys early and go out like Tyson/Foreman. He jabs and pecks away and doesn’t carry his power very well. Lewis had stamina and coasting problems so decisions are not out of the question either. And most importantly he could be outboxed. And that’s without Lewis losing to 2 average punchers by knockout. It don’t take no Shavers to do it!

 

Spinks went 2-0 against Holmes.

 

Haha my bad. I actually scored both fights for Spinks as well. But I think Spinks could beat Lewis.

 

Thing is, as noted above, he didn't "miss some contenders." He spectacularly failed to contest the best challengers in his era.

Marciano and Louis "missed some challengers." Dempsey, Patterson, and Holmes spectacularly failed to meet the best.

Otherwise solid post.

 

Also think Holmes lacks that "Fight" in his title rein that hurts him in the all time rankings. Dempsey had Firpo, Louis had Schmeling and Conn and even Two Ton Toney, Marciano had Walcott, Charles and Moore, Patterson at least had Ingo, Ali no need to mention him and the rumble in the jungle and the thriller in Manila. Holyfiled had his Tyson and Bowe fights, Lewis went out with VK in that pretty good fight.

 

On my latest All Time Greatest Heavyweights List, I have him at #11. I would not argue with anyone who has him as high as #3, but, personally, I can find ten Heavyweights who I think should rank higher than Larry, but the margins from #3 to #11 are thin, in my view.

 

Thank you.

Admittedly Holmes's defences post Witherspoon were poor & not against the best HWs in the world. That said, "spectacularly" isn't the word I'd use.

Whilst my top 20 differs to his, McGrain's top 100 HW's is my go to list for an independent appraisal of HWs ranked outside the top 20/25.

Dempsey missed his #12 Harry Wills & his #47 Harry Greb. The highest ranked fighter Dempsey beat was Matt's #32, Jack Sharkey. The highest ranked contender Dempsey defended his title against was #58 Billy Miske. I'd argue missing the c.12th greatest HW of all time, when the best you defended against was the c.58th greatest, is a spectacular miss.

The highest ranked HW Holmes beat was McGrains' #22, Norton. The highest he defended against was #34 Witherspoon. Admittedly, Witherspoon was a little green & that was a close fight. The next highest contender he defended against was #54 Shavers.

Let me know the greatest contender you consider Holmes spectacularly missed and we can see how he matches up in Matt's all time rankings to - 1) Wills (and even Greb); and 2) Norton, Witherspoon & Shavers - to help determine whose missed contenders, were missed the most spectacularly.

 

I’m not good at assigning ratings but I think he’s definitely an all time great in my book

 

I love Joe Louis. I'm in a minority that ranks him #1 all time at HW. However, you rank Tony Galento (not to mention Luis Firpo) higher than Tim Witherspoon, Earnie Shavers and Gerry Cooney?!?!

 

It's not about if Galento is better, its about which fights will be talk about 100 years from now, and Toney dropping Joe is still talk about today than Holmes beating Witherspood or Cooney. Hell Lewis beating old Tyson still gets talked more about. Yeah I think a fight were Shavers drops Holmes like he did would be mention like its Dempsey Firpo, but no sadly.