Assuming Johnson beat Willard

If the bouts were 20 rounds or less he wins them all.

 

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I presume Tommy is the Gibbons brother in question. While never a 20 round fighter [who did over pace in his challenge of Dempsey], he was distance oriented at the time, and nobody bested him until Greb III in 1920. If this thing goes the limit in 1917, I think he's the guy with the skills, durability, sufficient size and respect inducing power most likely to pull off the decision. Tommy Gibbons would be my first pick among the names offered. [His official record may have made him look green, but how could that ever have been possible when considering the tutor he was sparring with?]

Unlike Tommy, Harry Greb was a 20 round fighter by 1917, but giving away significant height or weight to a clinch master like Jack wasn't a good prescription for victory, when Johnson also possessed the superior skills and longevity of experience. Though aging, physical strength was not one of his diminishing attributes. Accurately efficient boxing and proficient blocking could thwart Harry's speed and work rate, and there are published indications that Greb could be then managed on the inside [specifically by Tommy in 1915] and made to miss. I believe Jack would neutralize him.

Johnson was formidable over the first 3/4ths in Havana. Not sure Fulton had the durability to weather that kind of attack. If only a knockout can lift the title, then Fred's the best candidate out of this selection to pull it off. However, not only was Fulton lacking in durability, his distance resume was sparse. I see only one way for him to take the title. Tommy Gibbons would also be a threat to take Jack out, while I don't see Fulton snatching a decision win for the championship. Tricky assertion though, due to the dearth of films on Fred.

Every time I view footage of Johnson-Moran, I glance at Carp refereeing them, scan the difference in heft between he and Jack, and think, "No way!," when briefly contemplating Johnson-Carpentier. [Because of WW I of course, this match never could have taken place in reality during the proposed time frame anyway.]

Firpo's recorded debut was in 1917. Bill Brennan wouldn't cement him as a serious contender until March 1923. Too raw to connect as needed on the defensively refined Johnson though, at any time.

Dillon? The LHW Champion realistically could have been an actual challenger for Johnson the year after Havana. 20 round stamina? Check! Reams of competitive world class experience? Check! Able to deal with heavyweight contenders and challengers like the Gunboat, Fireman and Dentist? Check!

Peaking during the precise time frame being discussed here, the Hoosier Bearcat may have lost more than any other contender by the outcome in Havana. Would have had to overcome the same physical logistics Burns and Ketchel couldn't hurdle, but may have had the necessary combination of youth, experience, stamina and relentless aggression needed to hustle his way to a 20 round decision. Like Fulton, we have a dearth of films on Dillon, but his record speaks much more loudly than Fred's with respect to bouts over longer distances.

Janitor's views on both Dillon and Darcy are ones I tend to respect and defer to, however.

Langford should have gotten Moran's shot at Johnson in Paris. Just one final time, I believe Johnson would have gotten himself into something approaching Reno condition for that one, and produce a final great defense of his title.

 

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Why? Johnson vs O'Brien was a draw, and had mixed primary source results as to who won.

Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson was also a draw, and juding by the NY Times, and Unforgivable Blackness, Jack was lucky to draw.

 

At one time I owned the entire Johnson Moran fight on 16 mm film. I did not see a close fight. JJ controlled the action and smothered Moran in close.

 

The obrien bout was a 6 rounder and Jack was one of the greatest lt heavy's ever. His boxing skill and movement over 6 rounds would make many hwt champions look bad. Over 20 rounds JJ gets to him.

His bout with Jim Johnson JJ was ill prepared to fight and again it was a short bout.

Of course the assumption is that for 20 round scheduled bouts JJ would be trained to fight the distance. Certainly against the best opposition he would likely been in great shape.

 

It does indeed look close on the extant film w/out careful scrutiny and studious observation. It's also my understanding that young Carp was of the persuasion that a knockout by the challenger must occur for the title to change hands. Like you, I've seen many rounds of that one [although not for a long time]. Moran also tried going outside on Willard, but Frank didn't have the hand speed and quickness to compete with Jess. Jack's defense reportedly was near impenetrable against Moran, and many subtleties of this are beyond the movie technology of the era. Carpentier, the sole judge, would not have missed these intricacies from his unique vantage point. It does not appear to have been the controversial outcome Jack's ten round draw with Battling Jim Johnson was.

Moran was not a horrible challenger in June 1914, yet not the most qualified either. Gunboat Smith had bested him over 20 [decking Frank in the process], and the then "White Heavyweight Champion" may have been the most worthy challenger among Caucasian contenders at that moment. [Gunner hit the skids only in the aftermath of Johnson-Moran.] Ed Smith already held official wins over Langford, Willard [like Moran, over 20], Bombardier Wells, Pelkey, Young Peter Jackson, Jack Twin Sullivan, Rodel and the Fireman, in addition to Moran. For my money, Gunboat was the most accomplished heavyweight "White Hope" not to get a title shot during Johnson's reign, and Moran's shot in Paris would have been the optimal moment for Smith to have received that opportunity. Gunner was 42-6-4 at that instant [compared to Moran's 21-6-2], on a 32 fight streak since Jack Guyer had twice beaten him cleanly, and had far more proved stamina over the 20 round limit. [Frank would not produce a victory in a bout longer than 12 rounds until 1920, and never over a distance greater than 15.]

Here, I should emphasize that I've only seen Johnson versus Moran on youtube, while I watched footage of Willard-Moran on film many years earlier. Jess looks slowish in Havana and Toledo, but not against Firpo, Moran or Floyd Johnson. [Carnera likewise displays very good hand speed against Max Baer and Impellitiere, but suffers in comparison to Louis, Loughran, Jack Sharkey and Larry Gains.]

 

My inclination would then be to defer to your observations. You don't need me to describe the superiority of movie film to videotape and internet services for these purposes.

 

Back in the 70s you could find all sorts of things available for sale. I forget my source but it was from advertisements/contacts made from these advertisements in the back pages of the boxing magazines of the time. I also bought the entire 15 round bout between Sharkey and Carnera (first bout), Louis Schmeling first bout, Carnera Loughran, and the first Dempsey Tunney bout.....all complete bouts all on 16 mm film. I also bought the signed contract between Jake Kilrain and another top bare knuckle contender (forget who) for 50 bucks. Remember it had an elaborate seal and two dramatic signatures at it's bottom. wonder what all this would be worth today? With YouTube the films are probably not worth much. The signed contract may be a different story. Crazy thing is I have no idea where all these are located today.