At their prime who would win in a fight between Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano?

Holyfield wasn't even the best of his own. era how the hell could anyone make a case for him in the top 10 all time

 

It’s because of diminishing returns after close to 190 pounds. If you know sports you would know in and around this weight has some huge performances some of the best all time!

Marciano is big enough to fight anyone and come out on top.

 

Diminishing returns and zero returns are not the same thing.

It's kind of strange that returns are quite big from say 175 to 187 lbs but then magically turns to zero.

 

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I do.H2H I pick him to beat;
Frazier
Marciano
Schmeling
Burns
Hart
Charles
Walcott
Willard
Corbett
Fitzsimmons
Sullivan
Sharkey
Jeffries
Tunney
Carnera
Baer
Braddock
Patterson
Johannson
Wlad
Which leaves
Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Liston
Ali
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Lewis

Holyfield / Bowe tied
Holyfield beat
Rahman
Ruiz
Moorer
Mercer
Tysonx2
Bowe
Stewart
Cooper
Douglas
Thomas
Dokes
Berbick
He was top ten ranked in
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
-
95
96
97
98
99
2000
2001
2002
That's 15 years.
His "era" included;
Dokes
Bowe
Lewis
Tyson
Moorer
Morrison
Foreman
Holmes
Ruddock
Weaver
Rahman
V Klitschko
Ibeabuchi
Golota
Bruno
Byrd
Ruiz
Briggs
Tua
Tucker
Mercer
I don't think he needs to be the best of that era to warrant a top ten all time ranking.

 

But it's not like Rocky was levels above contemproraries aroound the same size, like Charles and Walcott. He won, but in tough competitive fights. He was consistently better but not extremely much better.

 

Oddly enough the bigger guys he fought he knocked out rather quickly. I wish there was a decent couple of big men he fought...I think then everyone would have a good idea. Joe Louis was tiny compared to today’s standards and he knocked out a couple decent big men. You can therefore say he could hang w the bigs of today. The best shw he fought were Shkor and Bill Wilson who both were more of stepping stones shkor being the better. Won’t even count Johnson who was a 254 pound punching bag.
James Tooney was a good/great fighter but he didn’t dominate the lower classes. He had a lot of talent but didn’t possess anywhere near Rocky’s punching power or endurance. Had a hell of a chin though.

 

Toney roided up to well over 200 lbs and didn't dominate HW either.

 

Yet, we haven't seen a stumpy, slow powerpuncher who was that small even make a dent in (let alone dominate) the division in 40 years. How much longer do we need to wait?

 

Lmao he wasn’t that slow. I think we can agree he was fast enough to garner plenty of KOs. Tua, Toney, and Tyson were all 5”10. All different skill sets tyson and Tua containing plenty of power and all had great to decent chins. Once again to me I feel like people view his skin color as the real reason they find it impossible for him to be able to compete today. Otherwise there is no logical reason.

 

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Shkor was having his last fight he had been ko'd in 1 rd in his previous fight .Wilson was stopped on a cut eye before the fight really got started.Jackson was nothing, his record is 4-2 he never fought again .

 

He didn't really make a dent did he , Dokes took him apart.

 

That’s because of weight classes. We would have to wait till 185 pound fighters complete at heavyweight and Marciano to be born.

 

None of the small powerpunchers are dedicated enough these days. Marciano was extremely dedicated and willing to work hard and when Goldman talked he'd listen, since Goldman knew what he was talking about. Marciano would also train with Kid Gavilan quite a bit, which helped Marciano when fighting the lighter and tricky fighters, but also took advice from Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, and even Joe Louis when they would visit his camp. Cus D'amato said it best when he said a smart young person listens to older and more experience people.


Oscar Bonavena is another guy that had great potential and was supposed to pick up where Marciano left off in the 50's, but Bonavena despite having more power than Marciano didn't listen to Goldman and even refused instruction from Marciano himself when Marciano tried to correct his crouch. Bonavena also wasn't a fan of roadwork. Bonavena was able to give both Fraizer and Ali tough fights, but his poor conditioning let him down in both fights.

Bert Cooper had potential, but refused to do roadwork. Joe Frazier admitted that Bert had more raw power than himself, but wouldn't listen despite having Joe Frazier for a coach. Cooper wouldn't run and would blow off training camps. This is why Bert always fell short on the big stage.

Mike Tyson was a hard worker and at one time was very active and listened to the very wise Cus D'amato and became top dog, but by 1989 got lazy by being less active and let his conditioning slide.

Mike Tyson recalls what Cus D’Amato told him when he first moved into Cus’ house.
"You do what I tell you to do and if it doesn’t work, then you can leave.” –

Lamon Brewster, Sam Peter, and David Haye were also guys that had the potential to do major damage in the division, but Peter's was lazy and was rarely in shape and Peter and Haye were never active enough to master their skillset. Haye in the Wlad fight was coming off an 8 month layoff and in the Chisora fight a year layoff and then didn't fight for four years.


My old coach, who was a sparring partner for both Ron Lyle and Jerry quarry back in the 70's sparred 6 rounds with Stiverne in 2014 when he visited the Fight Factory and said Stiverne hit just as hard as Lyle, but told Stiverne to his face that he wouldn't have been championship material in the 70's due to his poor conditioning and how slow he was and that Wilder would easily beat him if he showed up over 230. Stiverne was an excellent counter puncher and had the power to match, but was also lazy and wouldn't do road work. While at the Factory Stiverne did 6 rounds of sparring, but refused to jump rope, use the speed bag, or even use the treadmill. My old coach had been training and sparring with pro boxers since 1968 and said Stiverne had to be one of the laziest top level fighters he'd had ever seen.

Stiverne at 239lbs defending his title against Wilder.
https://www.proboxing-fans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/stiverne-vs-wilder-weigh-in2.jpg
Stiverne doesn't look like a man trained hard enough that he'd be the last man standing in the ring and unfortunately I seen this first hand in 2014. Stiverne was able to neutralize Wilder's straight right and counter rights, but couldn't effectively apply pressure without gassing and when he tired anyway he became a punching bag for Wilder.

Povetkin had potential and was skilled, but like many before him was lazy. Atlas on numerous tried several times to get Povetkin to come in consistently around 215-220lbs, but Povetkin was too lazy and even embarrassed himself against Huck by coming in grossly overweight at 229 lbs and was lucky to get the decision.

In the biggest fight of his career look at the conditioning Povetkin had 226 lbs for Wlad.
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Alexander+Povetkin+Vs+Wladimir+Klitschko+Weigh+2rAXn29tqigl.jpg
Doesn't look like a guy that pushed himself to the limit in his training.

 

And with all the money offered at heavyweight a few pounds higher, the erstwhile 187 pound, slow as molasses slugger with bad balance but a suitcase full of "intangibles" hasn't eaten an extra couple plates of pasta and gone up to grab the brass ring?

Or is Marciano a once in a century type talent?

 

Do you think Wladimir or Lewis has a better chin then Marciano? Do you Think Vitali had as much power as Marciano?

Marciano’s chin and power are the best or near the best all time. Besides power and chin size has little to do with anything. There is also reach but everyone Marciano fought had a longer reach so it is not a issue.