At what point did heavyweight "giants" learn to punch with correct technique?

Their usage, more so than their mechanics. Just a working theory but it seems to me that there is a fundamental change starting at some point around the time of Liston, where top heavies start getting more mileage out of their jabs and doing a better job of seamlessly incorporating their jabs into their overall offensive repertoires. This is evident in the way that they regularly controlled fights and set range with their stiff jabs, worked off the jab to set up their power shots, threw sharp jabs on the move, and incorporated sharp double and triple jabs, etc. Older fighters knew the mechanics of jabbing and some occasionally used their jabs to great effect, but it seems to me that it became a far more important punch in heavyweight boxing during the second half of the twentieth century.

 

Please tell me which fighter has correct technique so I can check and see all the other hall of famers who do it wrong.

There is more than one way to throw a jab. More than one way to throw a right. Etc.

 

If there were one right way, everybody would do it the same.

There's no "correct" way to throw a baseball or football. There's ways to improve velocity or accuracy through mechanics, but someone who throws three-quarter-arm vs. overhead vs. sidearm can be equally effective.

Joe Frazier's left hook is NOT thrown exactly the same way as that of JC Chavez. Larry Holmes' jab is not thrown the same as George Foreman's, nor is Muhammad Ali's thrown the same as Sonny Liston's, but that's four of the greatest jabbers in heavyweight history.

There's an up-jab, a shotgun jab, a flicking jab and other variations. If you only throw one way, you're severely limiting yourself as a fighter. Most great fighters have a variety of throwing certain punches.

You state that there's only one correct way to throw a jab "because power is generated the same way." But power isn't the only game in town. Speed is a consideration, obscuring the opponent's vision so he doesn't see the right hand is a consideration, accuracy is a consideration, timing is a consideration. All of these are important components.

The mechanics can involve the footwork and the setup, weight distribution and shoulder rotation to change the plane of the punch, among tons of other mechanics.

It's already been mentioned in this thread, I believe, that Dempsey in his book teaches a right-hand punch technique that's different than many other people (not rotating the punch). So is Jack Dempsey teaching the correct or "incorrect" way to throw the punch?

Ted Williams had a hitting philosophy and technique that was completely different than that of Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb. All are Hall of Fame players who stand as three of the very best hitters ever to play the game.

To suggest that there's only one way to do something shows intellectual limitation and lack of imagination.

 

Mechanics exist in every sport. Golf swings, football throwing, etc.

If your fallback position is that everyone has the same body parts, thus the hip and shoulder are involved in the punch ... yeah, I guess there's only one way.

But watch Thomas Hearns throw an up-jab. The technique in what he does with the arm is completely different from Mike Tyson's jab.

Those ARE techniques. Those ARE mechanics.

You say above that the "correct" jab technique is to step forward into the punch. Go watch Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali pick someone apart with the jab while moving laterally. That absolutley proves that there's more than one way to throw it ... and proves that you are completely wrong.

There are left hookers who throw with an "open" technique in the left arm -- an angle created by the elbow bend of greater than 45 degrees. There are others who strive to keep a "closed" technique with a 45-degree bend. Some draw the left shoulder back to "crank" the punch, moving the right shoulder forward (sometimes punching, sometimes feinting, sometimes not). Others rotate the plane of the shoulder (dipping the left shoulder down, so the right shoulder is higher) and bend the knee more. Those are mechanics and technique.

What doesn't change is the physics: force = speed (acceleration) x mass. How to attain force comes down to technique and mechanics. If that's your point, you are correct unless Dr. Strange is fighting in an alternate dimension. But that's not what you are saying.

But it's not all about force, as I've explained. There's geometry (distance, angle, taller vs. shorter, etc.), there's the consideration of defense (how to generate offense without leaving yourself vulnerable), there's accuracy (a "properly" thrown straight right may have more force, but may not land against an opponent who knows how to defend agains it, so you have to adjust and throw differently to actually land the punch). All of those things are mechanics and technique.

That's really all there is to say.

 

Another simple example: uppercut.

Some throw it standing more straight up (a la Riddick Bowe) and rotate their shoulders (right shoulder planed downward, left shoulder planed up). Others bend their knees and drive up (a la Mike Tyson).

Tell me that they throw it exaclty the same. You can't because they don't.

 

Man, I don't know what to say.

Stop the Tyson uppercut at 1 second. Look at his body lean. Way over to the right side. In fact, he steps around to the right and throws it rather than throwing it up the middle, THEN leans to the right.

Bowe is clealry more straight up.

Do you know what plane of the shoulders means? If you lower your right shoulder your left is higher -- they're connected. Tyson utilizes a plane by leaning over to the right and dropping the right shoulder. Bowe doesn't do to even close to the same degree.

Hey, this is getting ridiculous.

If you honestly think George Foreman's jab and Muhammad Ali's jab are the same, or if you honestly think one of them is throwing it correctly and the other isn't, go on believing man.

 

Come on ..w Primo of course ... LOL