At what point did modern boxers surpass old ones?

You haven't refuted the talent pool argument at all, because an increase in the number of people competing doesn't guarantee that certain top athletes who would have been encouraged to fight aren't encouraged to do something else. Not every would-be fighter can be a top athlete in another sport, but they're more likely to end up there.

Regardless, I have pointed to specific observable skills-the ability to jab, cut a ring off, fight on the inside, and I could list others-that have declined and aren't present throughout the top 5 of each division, whereas they were in the past. You haven't refuted this at all. You just said some techniques have been made obsolete and never revisited that crucial point with any examples. Boxing is different to many sports because the skill-set has remained unchanged for decades, and unlike something like a javelin throw or swimming, it involves a more dynamic set of skills and strategic thinking. Thus, strength and conditioning alone doesn't dramatically alter the competitive level of the sport when the skill-set has declined. You're the one simply saying "every sport has progressed, therefore boxing has also", which is a fallacy and a crap argument. The gap in technical proficiency is on film.

Heavyweights have gotten bigger. This doesn't mean that skills in the sport overall haven't eroded. This isn't a high jump where the same repetitive motion can be boosted an inch and break a record due to a new weight-training method or protein shake. It's a human vs. human direct contact competition where intelligence and versatility matters more.

Additionally, athletes haven't necessarily been evolving in the way that is commonly touted. Sports have picked specialized humans for specialized sports and progressed immensely because of that. Boxing remains a sport where the success of varied styles depend on their execution and weight-classes mitigate the advantages of size in competition.

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger

 

The turning point was late 30s when the very first synthetic testosterone was synthesized by a German scientist.

 

Just look at some raw talents:

IQ.
Height.
Reach.
Reaction time.
Explosiveness.
Strength.
Stamina.
Natural heavy hands.
Chin.

You can upgrade some of them - but the same goes for everybody else...

You can learn any technique you want. But if you are too weak. short and slow: your muscle memory means **** if you cant bring it on fight night. Just go watch Eddie chambers getting beaten by Gerald Washington.

Talent>Skills.

 

Ya Ya , sport is sport. What applies to one applies to all.

Utterly ridiculous argument.

Its like saying who were the greatest footballers of the 90's and saying - Jordan , Shaq , Barkely ..

You might ask - wtf has NBA players got to do with soccer players ?? And id say exactly.

You intentionally won't single out the sport of boxing in these arguments because you know thats when you're argument instantly falls apart.

 

Neither are talents.
David Price has height. Tashon Dong has height.
Reach is only a talent if you can use it. Modern era guy Jennings has the same long reach as Listion yet he can't use it to put length on his punches.

 

There is not a single stiff fighting at heavyweight who could go 15 active rounds. Ali and Frazier would crucify any heavyweight today

 

Very sad about the music part... Kills me a little every day .. Same with films mainly on the horror side.

 

May 8th 1974.

 

Other than diet the sport has gone backwards. Like most sports now , its based on fitness and speed rather than skills.

 

I'm very surprised to read this from you.

Can you elaborate further.

 

I think by the 50’s boxers had mastered the sweet science in terms of technique, footwork and defense. Some of the better boxers and ATGs were beyond their time and were operating at a level that Boxing didn’t see as much as we do today. Some of the training methods and strategies to condition boxers have remained unchanged for years....but with the advancement of medicine, technology and nutrition we have a deeper level of understanding how to maximize the full potential of the human body that we didn’t have 100 years ago.

 

Ali competes and does well in any era. He was a good size. 6'3". His reach is 2-3 inches shorter than the likes of Wlad Klitscko and Joshua and much faster. Marciano gets beat by most champs from Holmes to present, same goes for Dempsey, Johnson, Patterson and Frazier.