Muhammad Ali,Sugar Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran. The defining moment when they elevated themselves to the position in which we place them today. Muhammad's easy. It was when he beat Foreman. He then became rated,by most,as the number one or number two all time heavyweight. This was cemented by the Thrilla. Nothing he did since then,in the ring,made the slightest bit of difference. With the other two,things become slightly harder. Robinson,in my mind,had done enough to ensure his pound for pound status,after the Randy Turpin rematch. His retirement,numerous regaining and losing titles made no odds. Roberto Duran,by 1979 had already made certain that he was arguably the best,or near as dammit,lightweight of all,and one of the greatest pound for pound. The Brawl In Montreal elevated him further still. Beating Davey Moore,and Iran Barkely added yet more kudos,but his best legacy was assured after Montreal. ?????????
The 'No mas' debacle should n't have much bearing when it comes to evaluating Roberto's entire career.
I think you pretty much answered your own question there. I agree with all 3 picks plus your other comments
With Duran, the initial reaction is often to define Montreal as the securing of his legacy. However, the rubber match with DeJesus was a huge event at the time, and finally made Duran officially the undisputed champion at his best weight. It is on the basis of Montreal though that I rate El Cholo as the P4P top man since Robinson's 147 pound heyday. For Ali, it was clearly Kinshasa. Although he followed it with ten successful title defenses, it was after Kinshasa that Harry Carpenter agreed with him that he was indeed likely the HW GOAT. 1975 and Manila cured the concrete. Post Manila, I do think Shavers meant something, particularly with respect to his chin. He stood up to more flush right hands on the chops from Shavers than all of Earnie's other opponents combined. Granted, there's no glory in taking a punch, but Shavers raises serious questions about what it would have taken to stop Ali at his peak. Muhammad's lead was really geared for slipping or riding out the left hook. But when he took the Shavers right, he got clobbered. Anybody who hasn't previously viewed Ali-Shavers expresses surprise when they see how much trouble Earnie gave Muhammad, and how much he was able to withstand compared to everybody else Shavers was able to land solid head shots on. Dundee, using knowledge of how the judges were scoring the fight live, guided Ali to an early and then insurmountable lead against one of the fastest starters in division history. Concerning Robinson, Jimmy Cannon opined that his comeback knockout of Olson in their third bout to regain the MW Title in December 1955 absolutely clinched him as a legend. Robby hadn't been all that impressive in 1955. He lost to Tiger Jones before a television audience, and had to get off the floor to get by Castellani. Although Bobo had gotten crushed by Moore when trying to move up at 175, there was nothing in his two fight history with Ray to suggest that Robinson would wipe him out in two rounds. Immediately after Jones upset Robby, Olson put him right back in the loss column. Bobo also looked good in dropping Maxim twice just before Moore, and had otherwise been hot since losing his MW challenge in Robinson II over the championship distance in March 1952.
I like your point about the Ali-Shavers fight. Muhammad proved,beyond all doubt,that his chin was cast iron !
Duran: over Leonard 1 Ali: over Foreman Robinson: tough one, im inclined to go for the st valentines day massacre but you could pick over Fullmer 2 and Basillo 2 also
I don't think there is any one "moment" where they elevated themselves to where they are today. Their legacies come from the entire body of their respective achievements. Obviously, Ali put himself among the ATGs when he came back to upset Foreman, but he enhanced his legacy even more by holding on to the title for several more years well after his prime, and becoming the first (and in reality, only) man to win the real lineal title three times. Same goes for Robinson. He was hailed as an ATG even before he won the MW title the first time, but coming back to win it several more times against HOFers (and especially his shocking KO upsets of Olson and Fullmer) place him even higher than if he hadn't scored those wins.
Duran secured his current legacy after the Barkley fight, when he fully redeemed himself from No Mas. Ali secured his current legacy after the second Spinks fight as he added the list small fillet of greatness to his resume. Robinson finished with his current legacy after in the final Basilio fight. If we are talking about when they first showed concrete signs of their future legacies then obviously it would of been a lot earlier for each fighter.
