ATG at 168: RJJ, Calzaghe, Ward?

You clearly overrate the Super6 fighters. "None are as good as Froch?" Never thought I'd read that. He was always seen as a limited brawler. The fact that he looked so good against Abraham and hung in close to Dirrell unfortunately says more about those guys' lack of top-level ability.

 

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You've decided to throw a fact-based discussion out the window and argue on the subjective potential you see in those fighters.

FACT: Hopkins called Pascal a very wild, amateurish fighter 3 years after Froch beat an even greener Pascal. Allow me to quote myself from a different thread:

 

That is a leading question. It implies that the Super6 participants were good in the first place. :rofl

 

Tell me who in the years between 97-06(Eubank to Lacy) would have beaten the S6 competitors?

Just watch these guys fight, then compare them to guys like Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer or Mario Veit, and tell me who the better fighters are.

And Froch is limited, though I think he has dispelled the brawler myth by having to box alot more as of late.

And Dirrell? When you look at him do you see limited ability?

 

The 2 best in the Super6 turned out to be Ward and Kessler.
The Kessler from the Super6 was but a shadow of the Kessler who put beatings on Beyer, Lucas, Andrade without even getting touched. Prime Kessler wouldn't have been in a war with Froch. That one would have looked like a remake of the Andrade fight.

 

1. Calzaghe.
2. RJJ.
3. Ward.

Ward is doing very well, but has been extremely protected i the process.

 

you are desperate for not being patient enough to let me see the fight again on your behalf.

Accept the fact that you have to wait gracefully, since I've nicely promised to commit some time to you. Or, just keep making it up as you go along to win your arguments, the choice is yours as to how you reply.

yeah he was trying to explain away why he looked bad against Reid, thats what it really looks like.

No one puts glass in his food to stress him before he fights **** opponents, I noticed, only the fight where he misjudged his opponent's ability and was lucky not to lose.

Dont get me wrong though, Cals a fine longevity champ and the most accomplished SMW ever for the time being.

 

Same as ^^^

 

There are several.

Kessler was the second best participant, after Ward, and lost to Slappy.

Froch is roughly on the same level as Kessler, and would be a 50/50 fight against prime Reid.

Glen Johnson was old at the time he participated, and as young he lost to Omar Sheika who lost to Slappy.

Arthur Abraham had little business at SMW. Would probably lose to a prime Lazy.

Taylor. Lost to AA, and previously to Froch. That should be enough said.

Allan Green

Dirrell. Did Slappy ever face anyone with Dirrells talent who was in his prime? Probably not, but Dirrells quality is hard to label since he is so inconsistent. In comparasion to Slappys opponents he should be seen as questionmark.

Ward. The only participant that clearly has proven himself to be better than anyone Slappy ever faced, perhaps a questionmark for the old Hopkins, but that was a poor and close performance.

There you go :good

 

Jones has the most talent. Calzaghe the most slaps. Ward the most caution.

 

So protected he joined the tournament with the best fighters and won it.


Keith

 

Reply to G Zod pt1

Are you now saying Froch is prime . Froch in the build up to Ward said he feels like an old man. Froch is more washed up now than Eubank was then.

Froch was taken to a MD against a fighter in his 40s whos best win was A Green coming off a loss.

Froch is older than Eubank was.

Froch hasnt beaten one prime SMW champ or future SMW champ except Magee now WBA int champ who was beaten by Reid when undefeated.

Froch got beat by Kessler and looked lucky against Dirrell, and dont forget the Adamu fight.



If you do the legendary H2H, Froch has a lesser workrate than Eubank, is slower than Eubank and older

Change the rules again. Reid was a journeyman whos best win was... But now you say dont rate fighters on accomplishment.

You change it to suit but fair enough.

Froch is slower than Lacy

Froch has a lesser workrate than Lacy

Froch hasnt scored as many KOs in title fights and I showed you how their opposition favours Lacy

Froch has looked lucky to many against Dirrell and to some against old Johnson who has lost more at SMW than won.

Froch hasnt anymore power than Lacy

Froch has less footwork than Lacy

Yet Reid is still the most accomplished SMW Froch has beaten

Did you watch the fight? Reid didnt put much in the fight and seemed out of sorts but either way yes he lost, but still Reid also beat a top 10 SMW who beat a future SMW world champ, Froch cant lay claim to that.

Still Froch was taken to a Mdec against a far worse SMW in 42 year old Johnson who hasnt beaten anyone at SMW. Malinga had beaten Benn, far more than Johnson could manage at SMW and Johnson had lost 3 of his last 7 coming in compared to 1 of his last 7 which was a SD loss to a world class SMW. Malinga didnt have as many losses as Johnson either and at SMW had done far more.



What was Pascals big win at SMW. Wasnt it Pascal that looked so bad at SMW that he lost out on a fight with Miranda? Yes it was.

Dirrell you rate above world champ Reid because he beat Oganov, who is far less than many opponents of Reids. Enough said

Yet has a better world title resume than Froch.

You havent been able to debate that and are just repeating and not answering. I wrote



Lacy damaged his shoulder in the Tsypko fight after Calzaghe and could never use the arm the same again, but still I think Calzaghe ruined him. Lacy was never right after he damaged his shoulder, and shouldnt have fought again, but that doesnt remove what he did or how he was rated before Calzaghe



But lets look

Froch beat Pascal who beat nobody at SMW at all and was coming in off a win over a nobody

Not as good as Lacy beating Sheika even who had just beaten Butler, now thats not saying Butler is great but far better than anyone Pascal had beat

then Taylor who was 1-2 in his last 3 fights, whilst Lacy beat Pemberton who had KOd Sheika who had beaten prime G Johnson at SMW once again greater.

Froch beat Dirrell whos best win was Oganov , which is less than Reid who had beat undefeated Magee now WBA int champ, which once again is better

Froch beats Abraham coming off a loss which is less than Tsypko for Lacy who was European champ and beat Magee.

Froch beats Johnson yet Lacy beat Vanderpool who beat Johnson.



Froch losses to Kessler coming off a loss, had more debeatable decisions, looked worse than Lacy pre Calzaghe, was older, had taken more beatings which is important for you



You didnt try and debate any of that just rewrote Lacy was a journeyman, thats what you call debating. Not answering just repeating

Watch the fights, against Perdermo for the first few rounds Kessler was getting tagged more than usual and he his timing was noted as poor in a report I read also, the same was said with Kessler in his last fight.

Do you think Kessler was looking as good as he used to, on his toes firing off combinations in the Perdermo, Ward or Froch fight. Watch how he worked against Mundine

Then you best look at Froch more closely because you note Eubank who was fighting almost monthly and dismiss that when a fighter was fighting monthly they are going to be more fatigued than normal. You completely dismiss that, yet you also dont answer how amongst all of that, Froch was struggling with Adamu and looking lucky to win and having to work hard at the end to try get a decision that many didnt think he deserved.

Tell me who Eubank struggled with that was worse than Adamu and note Eubank was fighting monthly, in fact tell me who was as bad as old SMW Johnson? Look at how Bute fought him

Surprised you really need one but if you really dont believe or know Kessler had an eye problem

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/25/eye-injury-forces-mikkel-kessler-from-super-six-tournament/

 

Reply to G Zod pt2

You obviously havent seen the fight. Reid didnt get beat up, he lost by not doing anything and Malinga didnt do much either, so once again, dont tell lies, you are making a habit of that.

So Dirrell is in formative stages, so not at the level of Reid, still you forget Dirrell was clapsing to the floor against one of the slowest MWs ever and got Kod in his fight after that.

Also Dirrell was gone for how long after being KOd?

You note Pascal (who didnt do a thing at SMW) for Froch but Branco who beat Reid won a LHW world title also and was a world rated SMW who beat Johnson far clearer than Froch and Froch beat Dirrell, also Dirrell got rendered out cold by a former MW who couldnt compete at SMW, that never happend to Reid, maybe you should look at the level Dirrell has fought at because he hasnt stepped into that level

Yet Johnson could take Froch to a Mdec when years older and with more miles on the clock, which is how you judge Eubank.

Good enough to beat most SMWs but as you note Reid deserved the decision and that is far more than Froch has ever done.

Well done

It was close but Sheika beat Johnson and that was when Johnson was fresher

Yet still this boiled down old man fighter could take Froch that close yet couldnt do a thing with Bute.

You go on about Eubanks wear and tear, but Eubank at 31 seemed far fresher and better than Johnson

Never said it was great, but I do rate Reid winning away in Italy against a world rated fighter who had fought some opponents greater than Froch beating a fighter who hadnt beaten one decent SMW ever only journeymen as you put it, well Pascal really had only fought Journeymen, and I rate it greater than beating a former MW coming off a loss who cant compete at SMW

Tell me how its not greater

When I asked about Jones/Froch you said different weights and irrellevant

You call these world class SMWs journeymen , and note Pascal and Dirrell havent lost to those sort of fighters but you fail to mention at SMW they havent even fought at that level and were both put down and badly hurt by journeymen when they were.

Completely different to Reid losing to Malinga who had beaten Benn in a fight you havent seen

Double vision is what I said, not blurred. Telling lies again. Didnt J Fraizer pass physical examinations with eye sight in only one eye

Lies again, they didnt disappear and were on his mind during the fight, which he also stated in the book you refer to

Dawson by your rules only beat Journeymen. G Johnson and Tarver were around 14/15 years older than him, and you note reflexes, just look at both Tarver and Johnson.

I noted that I felt Pascal would beat Dawson, it wasnt a shock when as you Dawson was pushed by Johnson, who you felt won and G Johnson was beaten by Woods and badly hurt in their first fight.

So how has that win become great now. Johnson was beaten by the likes of Branco and Ottke who you didnt rate earlier in this very post

Yeah I would agree. But Calzaghe is the only one in question who beat Hopkins and Pascal who you rated couldnt beat an even older version, who Jones put down for more than 10

Kessler himself said he didnt have a problem and I have both the interviews on tape

 

Best in the wolrd ! You want to give me some names better than the guys that participated or are you a Bute fan