ATG at 168: RJJ, Calzaghe, Ward?

Thats how I see it also.
Just look at how Kessler when fit and well boxed against Andrade and Mundine

 

What best fighters? Kessler and then Froch a bit below, thats it and he didnt fight all of those fighters either.
Compare it to Froch who fought every single member of the original S6 one after the other.
Compare it to Froch who fought in a foreign country 5 of those 6 times compared to Ward who didnt at all.
Compare it to Ward who fought in his home state for all but one fight.
ward didnt fight any undefeated fighter in the S6 or in anyone elses backyard.
Ward had a ref that warned Kessler about head use and allowed Ward to use the head.

At this time Ward is very promising but similar in many ways to Ottke still, just not yet as accomplished

 

Eubank, undefeated Kessler, then there are many names similar level to some of the S6 and above others in Mitchell, Woodhall, Reid, Lacy


Dirrell beat nobody at SMW and doesnt have a resume as good as Veit
Abraham see above
Johnson see above and has more losses at SMW than wins
Green see above
Taylor was 1-3 coming into the S6 with 2 KO losses

Froch hasnt beaten one prime SMW champ, except B Magee the WBA int champ beaten when undefeated by Reid
Lacy has a better world title resume than Froch as does Mitchell and Woodhall



Before the S6 Ward hadnt done anything though has changed that

 

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who is Bailey Imperial? I only know of a Failey. oh yeah GIANTS!!!

 

Oh yeah Failey


Word back to the GMEN !!! YEAH BABY !!!

 

I'm in no way intimating that AA is as effective at 168 as he was at 160, but the guy really did lose to 3 of the top SMWs. To say he can't do it at all based on that is tough sampling. He KO'd Taylor(not the hardest thing, but was outpointing him as well) and Miranda(not sure if that was 168 or 160 though). I think he'd beat the vast majority of the '97-06 guys.

I think Froch would outpoint Woodhall, who I think was a decent fighter (and would probably beat AA.)

I think the truth about people overrating Lacy's chances against Calzaghe is due to the unfamiliarity with Calzaghe and his abilities as opposed to Lacy being such a world beater. Lacy had struggled with some pedestrian fighters. I think it is reflective of the opinion for the general(not all) level of Calzaghe's competition that Lacy was so overwhelmingly favored. Calzaghe obviously blew that out of the water.

I think Woodhall would most likely beat AA, but the others I'm not so confident of. Against Johnson, it would likely be a nip and tuck affair that could go either way(as are most of Johnson's fights). I think he loses convincingly to Froch and all the others, except Green which would also be close.

Of course it would favor the S6 fighters......they have fought the generally tougher challenges consistently for the 2+ years of the tourney.

Again, it comes down to who the better fighters are not specifically what they have done exclusively at SMW or not.

I think Mitchell probably loses to every guy who participated in the S6, although a few could be a toss up. I'd say he's on a level more or less with the lower guys in the tourney. And I like Mitchell. I think he'd probably be outboxed by all of them, except AA. But I don't think Mitchell had the speed and/or reach or skills to keep AA shelled up for the whole fight, I think he get's KO'd but in a close fight.

Meh....It's not exactly impossible for journeymen to reach mandatory challenger status when there are so many belts. It reflects neither positively or negatively on Reid.

Froch vs Lacy would be a nice fight to have seen when Lacy was prime/healthy. I'd give an edge to Froch, but by no means substantial.

I don't see how the opposition favors Lacy, at all.

Bute does need to prove it, and he just might. I think he is the real deal.

I think AA KO's those 2.

 

I dont give a **** about your personal vendetta against Bailey, man. Stick to discussing boxing.

Every resume can be ripped apart. Or bigged up. But Taylor was KO'd three times in a row. Thats very, very bad. I dont think Hopkins losing two competitive fights by decision compares.

It's great that Kessler is accomplished. Try to get into your head that he lost to Joe. And if Byron Mitchell was as accompliched as Froch, that means at least two of Joes opponents compares to Super Six contenders, right?

Fair enough. But if Taylor should be seen as having the credentials, that means Joe beating Hopkins should be as good. Hopkins was old, but he had the credentials as well.

AA was more accomplished than Joes opponentes, sure. But should you go by resume or head to head abillity? Who would you rather figth at SMW if you where a pro boxer? Prime Lazy who keeps swinging even if you slap his face in, or AA who gasses and covers up behind his guard?

Maybe Joe ducked Glen, maybe his injuries where real. I dunno. But is beating a 42 year old Glen Johnson really that great?

It gets better:

Kessler beeing in the Super Six = Joe beating Kessler.

Froch beeing in the Super Six = Joe beating Byron Mitchell.

Taylor beeing in the Super Six = Joe beating Hopkins.

Allan Green beeing in the Super Six = Joe beating Reid.

Regardless of how you look at AA and Dirrell, we should agree about those four at least. Ward I have already said is better than anyone Joe faced who I can think of.

 

Again read what I said about Taylor Hopkins if your going to keep bringing up Kesslers loss to Joe and his win against Hopkins ..Joe also beat Kessler by decision not by some lopsided beating like Lacy ..Kessler would become champ after that !And who the hell is rating Alan Green

PS : I can't quote for **** I responded to your posts

 

No, I said Ward has a decent resume. Which he does, especially compared to Calzaghe. By the time he's 35, I bet his resume makes Calzaghe's look laughable.

And kindly please acknowledge that I still ranked Calzaghe first and Ward last.

 

Sometimes I wonder what guys would do if they didn't pump up Slappy Joe all day.

With as much research as has been done on this subject by Bailey alone, diseases could have been cured and I'd have a vacation home on the moon.

 

Ward may well surpass, who knows but at this time against who the Rings numbers 5-10 are all less accomplished with weaker resumes than Veit who Calzaghe beat. All there is, is Bute who many dont think has beaten anyone yet.
Wards best win is Kessler who Calzaghe beat when undefeated. Thats Wards best win.
Froch hasnt compared to some of Calzaghes victims and never beaten a top SMW or SMW champ.
Calzaghe has world champs Kessler, Veit and Lacy then there are fighters like Reid who should have been a world champ after Calzaghe again, Woodhall, Eubank etc to name a few plus all of the other top 10 SMWs on Calzaghe resume. Then Calzaghe has the Hopkins win and Hopkins has become LHW champ again. I doubt there will be many LHWs as good as Hopkins for Ward to fight if he moves up. So as it stands Ward is doing well but has a long way to go.

If you look at who Ward has beaten in his first 5 world title fights with Kessler the best win and then Froch, they are below Eubank and Reid respectively in as many of Calzaghes first 5 world title fights

 

exaclty, I would have thought this settled a long time ago - RJJ best in ability by a fair margin, Cal most accomplished, Ward the one most poised to become the best SMM ever.

i dont think anyone can deny Cal is the most accomplished at 168, but its impossible also to disregard Ward's burgeoning record, which if you drew a graph of it and projected it forward six years, would surpass Calzaghe's. Its almost like comparing young Cal with Sven Ottke - although Cal was light years ahead of that joke - young Cal showed more promise and already had a better than average batting record than a close to retiring Otkke ever did at any point in his whole career, similarly Wards' batting average this last year has risen above Cals - but still a long way to go in terms of longevity. After all Ward's batting average may also FALL over the next few years too, bringing his average below Cals.

If you'll forgive the cricket metaphor there. i am english, kind of.