ATG BANTAMWEIGHT TOURNIE: QF 2 - CARLOS ZARATE RTD13 CHUCHO CASTILLO

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 15, 2020.


Who will win?

Poll closed May 18, 2020.
  1. Castillo

    23.1%
  2. Zarate

    76.9%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    A technical thunderb@stard of a contest this, Zarate fresh from his pulverising points victory over Pal Moore, Castillo having desperately edged out Manuel Ortiz.

    Chuch Castillo (seeded 15) was a blank-faced box-punching genius mixed with a level of competition equal of any who appear in this tournament. He served a desperate apprenticeship among the massed banditry of the exceptional and crowded bantamweight ranks in 1960s Mexico, breaking out in 1967 and winning the Mexican bantamweight title. This was no normal national level belt and was held at that time by none other than Jose Medel. Castillo, had now broken onto the world scene, but and continued to duke it out with the best on the Mexican scene even as his assault upon the world championship began.

    “He would fight a bull with a fork,” as one promoter put it, and truly, Castillo left no stone unturned in his mission to become the world’s best.

    Before he could reach the champion he needed to best the division’s boogeyman, Jesus Pimentel. This, he did, upsetting the odds and wowing a big crowd at The Forum in Los Angeles on his American debut, handing Pimentel a one-sided pummelling. The great Lionel Rose held the title and, once more at the Forum where he had succeeded in making himself something of a fan favorite, Castillo got his shot.

    Ringside reporters were, according to The Press-Courier, split evenly as to the winner; the judges, too, were split, but the heavy end of the decision went to Rose. The LA crowd rioted and two-hundred police officers were dispatched to place them under control. Castillo continued to riot, too. Just four months after his failed title shot he knocked out the all-time great Rafael Herrera, as though he were nothing, in just three rounds. Another title shot, then, was inevitable. To take the championship, all Castillo had to do was defeat perhaps the single best bantamweight ever to have boxed.

    Ruben Olivares was riding a thirty fight knockout streak but found himself on the ground looking up after just three rounds against Castillo. Olivares was very far from being a fighter reliant upon his power, however, and he ground down Castillo for the decision. In the rematch, he dropped Olivares again his right hand, by now perfected, the best in the division’s history for me, and it makes him a technician of the highest order as well as the tank he is reputed to be. Olivares was stopped on a cut, a single point behind on a single card, in the fourteenth round. Castillo was the champion; not a great one, but one of the greatest contenders in boxing history.

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    Carlos Zarate’s story is told in blood and punches.

    My favorites landed – detonated is likely a better word – in 1975. Zarate was just another contender then, for all that he was one with violence painted upon every canvas he ever stepped upon, thirty three fights and thirty-two knockouts in his terrible wake; his opponent, perhaps was not even a contender. A gatekeeper marked with the name Orlando Amores, he troubled Zarate early, not unusual, many lesser men tested him while he sought them, but when he found them. In round three Zarate countered an increasingly frenetic Amores to the ropes and parked two neat uppercuts followed by a neat hook upon his opponent’s chin. They were not violent punches – they were hardly even flamboyant. They were thrown a little like a drunk emptying two full ashtrays into his garden. But Amores was gone, capable only of rolling onto his stomach, face pressed to the canvas, gloves either side of his head as though in devout prayer, heaving in oxygen.

    In 1976 Zarate (seeded 10) deployed said violence against the superb Rodolfo Martinez, cracking him to the canvas in the fifth and breaking him down with those extraordinary, long, luxurious punches, finally terminating his resistance with a right uppercut in the ninth.

    The tough Italian Paul Ferreri lasted a little longer before Zarate opened up his face for him. The unbeaten Alonso Zamora, the world’s other outstanding bantamweight, lasted only four before being blasted into the same netherworld Amores had been sent to. When his corner threw in the towel it landed across their fighter’s eyes and he raised himself, more defeated barfly than professional fighter.

    Even Alberto Davila, one of the toughest bantamweights ever to live, could not survive him, succumbing in eight.

    Zarate’s punches changed men. He introduced them, briefly, to their own mortality.

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    Who wins this dead man's chessmatch under the following ruleset?:

    15 round fight.
    1950s referee.
    8oz boxing gloves.

    Cast your vote and explain yourself in a post below! You have 3 days.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Hard to put it into words, I feel that Zárate on form is too good to lose to Castillo.

    Chucho basically beat Olivares on sheer bollocks. If there was ever a fight to resemble the mantra "Fortune favours the bold", it's that. I don't think that works vs Zárate, who picks him apart and stops him late.
     
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Could be.

    On the other hand, Pintor was able to deal with Zarate pretty aggressively and force him to counter-punch more than we might normally see and while i'm not saying Pintor won that fight, I had it to him by a single point - by the knockdown.

    Aggressive technical boxing, coupled with "sheer bollocks" and a great chin. Sound like anyone we know?

    I think Castillo has a very good chance her to pen Zarate and stop him landing that second punch, something else he struggled with against Zarate. Meanwhile this is the guy to take minor chances against huge punchers to score big. The guy. I'm going for Castillo by decision.
     
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  5. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Haha, I didn’t quite have time earlier. I would say Zarate being an excellent boxer who made few mistakes and a major banger with a great body attack is a style nightmare for most. Chucho, though he could bang a little and box and was tough as nails so I can see it looking a little like the Zarate-Davila fight but with Chucho lasting longer and doing a little better.

    Tempted to pick a KO but I’ll be safe and say Zarate realizes he can score enough points at distance and then hit hard enough in close to dissuade Chucho. I say Zarate wins something like 11-4 in rounds.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Fairs. Not for mine though.

    Pintor's erratic head-movement, double uppercuts, fantastic array of parrying and ability to fight off the ropes offer a whole different proposition to Chucho. I did actually have Pintor take that one too, 143-141 iirc. Chucho wasn't nearly as clean, or skilled imo.

    A boxer-puncher like Zárate isn't exactly short of options either. He could box himself, and I think he wouldn't have qualms in doing so if needed.

    A point I'd like to make is that Zamora, whilst not the same or as a good as Castillo, went for Zárate's throat. Which ultimately led to a great fight, in which he was slumped. Obviously. Now whilst I think Chucho has much success than Zamora, I think he'd find that Zárate isn't giving him the ground as he thought he would, and his chin can't take as many flush shots as he'd like.

    So yeah, I think Chucho would try and take that chance, but fall short. No shame in that though, not many men at 118 beat Zárate imo.

    Pintor vs Chucho would be a gory classic though!
     
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  7. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Really nothing I can add that hasnt already been said in these superb posts.
    I just rate Zarate as a better fighter period and I think he has the tools and versatility to take this fight very possibly by KO.
     
  8. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’m surprised to see anyone have Pintor ahead or even close within a point. I don’t even think Pintor thinks he won even to this day (he sure as hell didn’t back then). There’s no doubt he came on and his strength caused problems (Zarate was dying at 118 by the ), but Zárate dominated most of the first 8-9 rounds. I personally scored it 9-6 with a knockdown too. Can see 10-5 but 8-7 seems a little too close for me. Almost as though Pintor got rounds just for making some rounds a little closer.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Big shouts!
     
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I had it worse than that, I had it 7-7-1, literally the single point from the KD the difference. I thought that Zarate got out-prodded coming square, and I mean a lot. He got out-jabbed while Zarate tried and failed to get wait-and-hop going.

    Thought he chuntered in, too - thought he really struggled with the championship rounds, looked a bit goosed to me.

    ZARATE:3,4*,5,8,9,11,12
    PINTOR:1,2,6,7,10,14,15
    EVEN:13
     
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  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would not be one bit surprised if Zarate is sprayed on the canvas here within the first three rounds courtesy of a counter-right by one of 118's greatest counter-punchers. However, I would also see Zarate getting up and getting back into the fight. Castillo too tough and too slick to be stopped. I see Zarate by tough but comfortable decision.
     
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  12. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Carlos Zarate!,,I think he's just the better of the two for many reasons already pointed out
     
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  13. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Could go either way, but I voted Chucho because of his knack for dropping the right in between his opponent's shots. I think that's a punch that could really disrupt Zarate if it lands early and make him susceptible to Castillo's educated pressure.
     
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  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Drew101, speaking my language.
     
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  15. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    If Castillo could turn the trick against Olivares, then he certainly has a chance against Zarate. However, I think Zarate's punches would wear on Chucho, who I see as possibly being too brave for his own good here. I think his best bet would would be to use movement and counter, and his aggressive style could give Zarate the chance to do damage and get the better of exchanges.
     
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