ATG BANTAMWEIGHT TOURNIE: Round 1, Fight 6 - LIONEL ROSE MD12 RAFAEL HERRERA

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 10, 2020.


Who will win?

Poll closed May 13, 2020.
  1. Rose

    60.0%
  2. Herrera

    40.0%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :ibutt

    In 1969, Chucho Castillo stopped Rafel Herrera (seeded 11) in three; in 1971 Herrera secured the rematch and avenged it but in the narrowest of narrow decisions. As fine a fight as was ever contested at bantamweight was what these two engaged in at the Forum and when they went to war in the twelfth, for a second time after the desperate and vicious fourth, it was for all the marbles. Herrera got home by a split decision.

    In 1972 Herrera met Ruben Olivares for the world title. Olivares had been beaten in 1970 by Castillo but since then had reclaimed his title in a rematch and blasted out several excellent fighters, including the murderous Jesus Pimentel. Herrera harried and harassed him, pressuring him with jabs and a disciplined guard, countering to the body, he systematically deconstructed him. In the course of the eighth he put two right hands through the champion then, later, caught him with an almost incidental looking hook; Olivares went down face first and rose at eleven. Herrera then apologized to the legend he had mortalized.

    Herrera lost the championship in his very first defense, against Enrique Pinder but he picked up another piece of the title and rounded off an absolutely beautiful resume in style. In addition to Olivares and Castillo he defeated Romeo Anaya, the wonderful ex-flyweight Venice Borkhorsor, Rodolfo Martinez, all of whom were among the very best bantamweights in the world when he took them. Add supplementary wins over the likes of Octavio Gomez and he crafted a resume bettered only by the very greatest in the division's history. Part of my notes on this fighter reads: "Could beat anyone."
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    Lionel Rose is a part of the royal bloodline at bantamweight that stretches from 1961 to 1970 and encompasses the title reign of Eder Jofre then Fighting Harada, who lost the crown to Rose, who lost it to Ruben Olivares. I think it unlikely that four such talented fighters ever passed any title hand to hand in this way.

    Rose did some damage in this clash of kings, traveling to Japan in 1968 to meet the man who had defeated Eder Jofre, Fighting Harada. The referee docked Rose for a non-existent foul and warned him repeatedly for hitting with the open part of the glove. It didn’t matter. Rose was as beautiful that night as any bantamweight pugilist ever has been. He won rounds on his toes, he threw uppercuts to the heart, he threw hooks to the ribs, he led with the right, he moved from a left-handed clinic to a booming overhand right which even flashed Harada to the canvas in the ninth.

    I saw it wide and even though the judges had it desperately narrow they had it to the right man, new bantamweight champion of the world Lionel Rose. I have never seen Rose quite as special as he was against Harada, which is one of the most complete performances in ring history for my money, but he was good enough to turn away numerous top contenders including Tukao Sukari and, in desperately close but justifiable distance fights, Chucho Castillo and Alan Rudkin. It took a series of desperate struggles with the weight and a fighter as good as Ruben Olivares to separate him from the title.
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    Rose edged out Castillo (whatever your personal feelings about that fight); could he do the same to Herrera under the following ruleset?:

    15 round fight.
    1950s referee.
    8oz boxing gloves.

    Cast your vote and explain yourself in a post below! You have 3 days.
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Mar 3, 2019
    That emoji at the start made me read this entire thing like you were shouting. I thought I was reading a Morlocks post!

    Hesitantly, I pick Rose. That Slickness is gonna wreck havoc on Herrera, and I like him to out-box him cleanly if he shows up like he did for Harada. However, Herrera was excellent vs Borkhorsor (only footage I have a vivid memory of, although I have seen the Olivares fight, awhile back) and could lead or back off. I don't think he's out-boxing Rose, and I don't think he's as tidy a pressure fighters as (even an aging) Harada. So I pick Rose.

    Sorry if that's painting black and white. Herrera is one of the BWs I need to look into. Especially with a résumé that deep.
     
  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm going with Herrera, but just as narrowly as George went for Rose. I think Rafael contains Lionel's boxing with his somewhat over-looked pressure and infighting, much the way he did to the speedster Famoso Gomez. Very close, but I like Rafael in this one.
     
  4. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    I've gone for Rose by close decision, the version that decisioned Harada before weight-draining killed him. It's a worry for me here that Herrera, superb though he was, struggled to conclusively map and tack down the fluid and smooth boxing but fragile Pinder. And to a lesser degree, ever get a true handle on Castillo. Even Borkhorsor, who really busted Herrera up, did so by circleing away from Herrera's best punches and clouting him on the counter, be it though from a southpaw stance.

    Herrera was extremely well schooled as a boxer puncher and pressuring counter puncher; very good form and shot variety and obviously rangy and a powerful threading puncher (which is my worry for Rose, whose chin was average by world standards) who . I do think he was a tad rigid, methodical and not the quickest though; even Rudkin and Sakurai were a bit looser and quicker of hand and foot (Sakurai especially for the latter) with similar excellent technique by and large, though obviously without Herreras power and legacy in championship fights.

    Rose would be vulnerable to Herreras punch I think but was significantly faster. He was also physically monstrous at bantam - very strong and a good infighter despite his smooth style and not being a puncher. He might have to ride some dangerous waves, nor would it shock me to see Herrera stop him, but I tend to see him circling at ring centre and settling into a rhythm that stops Rafa from ever getting set 100 per cent or avoid being beaten to the punch slightly more often than not, either on the counter or lead.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I guess i'll pick Rose to peck his way to a relatively dull decision. Relative to these other fights we been talking about, I mean.
     
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  6. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Great posts..would have been a great fight
     
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's official folks, Rose has jabbed his way into the quarter-finals after a nip-and-tuck decision win over Herrera. Herrera, the aggressor throughout, had his moments when able to draw Rose into a fire-fight, feinting, slipping and counter-pushing his way inside before unloading with both hands. It brought him the lion's share of the first five, but Rose began hitting and moving in the sixth and dominated through the tenth. Herrera began to get closer in the tenth but by that stage both men were wearying and it was Rose who held his form to edge the later rounds, his strategic flexibility too much by a mere hair on two of the three judge's scorecards; the third had it a draw.
     
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