ATG FEATHERWEIGHT TOURNIE: ROUND 1, FIGHT 4 - HENRY ARMSTRONG KO13 GEORGE DIXON

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 28, 2020.



Who will win?

Poll closed May 31, 2020.
  1. Dixon

    12.5%
  2. Armstrong

    87.5%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    "By his pluck and integrity,” wrote the St.Louis Republic in the early 1900s, “[George Dixon, seeded four], has done more to gain consideration for dark-skinned men than ever Frederick Douglas did.”

    The article from which this quote is drawn is spotted with the kind of casual racism that marred much of the era’s press, and, of course, the statement itself is more than debatable. But it is instructive. Everyone admired Dixon, for his heart and for his skill. By ’01 Dixon was losing far more than he was winning, broken down and fighting men who would not have made worthwhile sparring partners during his incredible pomp, but still the white press continued to exalt him. His wonderful skills vanished with the old century, but the final decade of that century had belonged to him, perhaps more than to any other pugilist in the world.

    During that time, Dixon went 16-2-1 in featherweight title fights.

    Even these two losses are mitigated by the fact that he defeated both of the men who beat him. After the great lightweight champion Frank Erne bested him in 1896, Dixon agreed to face him in a rematch in New York despite the fact that Erne came in eight pounds above the limit. Facing a great fighter who had previously scored a victory against him and now suffering a weight disadvantage, it should be obvious that Dixon was the underdog ringside, but he was a thinking fighter. Dixon parked his two best punches, a steaming left to the body and a right hand aimed at the jaw and instead stood straight, neither swarming nor crouching, and invited the bigger man onto him, casually picking him off as he was attacked. Erne came on in the final rounds of the twenty-five, but by then Dixon had left him eating dust.

    The other man to defeat Dixon was Solly Smith who took his title in 1897. Previously, Dixon had stopped Smith in seven and so he pursued a rematch. Dave Sullivan, a slick, quick Irishman beat him to the shot and when Smith broke his arm (he never properly recovered) in his match with Sullivan, Dixon swept in for the title shot. Sullivan was trapped on the end of Dixon’s jab early, but was boxing well by the tenth when he walked onto a Dixon uppercut, quite possibly the victim of one of “Little Chocolate’s” little traps; corner interference saw the championship returned to its rightful owner.

    That was 1897. He would hold it in multiple defenses until the monster Terry McGovern came calling in 1900. Before that, in spells, he seemed invincible. Today, Dixon seems to enjoy a reputation based primarily upon technical excellence and defense, and certainly he excelled in these areas; he was also, however, a little war-machine, aggressive, direct, armed with good punching power and, in his prime, near limitless stamina.
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    The terror that was thirteenth seed Henry Armstrong.

    Unparalleled in his chosen style; as lethal, as terrifying, as devastating as any man who has ever set foot upon a taught and blood-sodden canvas – one of the few men who could legitimately claim to be as good as anyone who came before or after.

    At featherweight, Armstrong’s position is less assured. In fact, before he even made a mark at featherweight he had begun his exploration of lightweight, his assault in earnest at 126lbs not beginning until 1935, four years after he turned professional, with a defeat of the shadow of the once great flyweight Midget Wolgast. Wolgast was toying with obesity at featherweight but he had still done enough damage to earn himself a top five ranking and a reputation as a spoiler deluxe, a nightmare for a prospect, however talented. In the second, Armstrong dribbled the champion down the ropes and never really looked back, crashing his way to a ten round decision. More top five stalwarts followed, including Baby Arizmendi in their 1936 encounter, their only meeting at featherweight and a fight he won so clearly that some sources see him victorious in every round. Title claimant Mike Belloise was next, battered into a retreat and a ten round loss, Armstrong refused recognition by the alphabet organization in question due to their championship limit being fifteen rounds; Armstrong knocked him out in four in a rematch, perhaps to punish him for the inconvenience, before being recognized as lineal the following year after handing out similar treatment to Pete Sarron.

    Not an irrefutably great featherweight, but an irrefutably frightening one.
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    Who will win under the following rules?

    15 round fight.
    1950s referee.
    8oz boxing gloves.
    10 points must.

    Cast your vote and explain yourself in a post below! You have 3 days.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Off the bat: George Dixon was a brilliant genius and arguably the most wonderful fighter of the first century of gloved boxing. In terms of style, in his prime, I also think he has the skill relative to his peers, to beat Armstrong, to pick him off, out-joust him, counter him, and then wrestle, pin, and brutalise him in close in an absolutely filthy fight.

    But the rules don't favour him here i'm afraid and boxing has likely evolved too far since his towering peak to allow him to equalise.

    It would be very hard to watch but I think Armstrong would stop Dixon late. And you might also get some epic riff on Moore's "I, too, am a champion" speech.

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  3. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    I think Dixon has the tools to give Armstrong some trouble, but I just don't think he would be able to match Armstrong's pace and aggression. Dixon had an excellent engine given that he routinely fought 25 round fights, but Armstrong was a whole different beast entirely. I think Dixon's corner stops it late.

    Bit of a shame he drew Armstrong in the first round, I was hoping to see George do well in this tournament.
     
  4. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm thinking Armstrong could run the tournament, but I'll cast a vote for Dixon anyway, since I rep for the land where he was born. Hali stand up.

    Based on contemporary reports, Dixon had very good speed and better than average power in both hands. He kept up with Griffo at least once using the leaping left hook, so it;s a good weapon for him. He wasn't stopped till he met McGovern when well past his best, so he's plenty tough. He could be out-maneuvered, but everything indicates that you brawled with the guy at your peril. If you're looking for someone who might be able to trouble Armstrong by virtue of speed, toughness, and an ability to catch him off guard with well timed ambushes of his own, then Dixon is as good a guy to pick as any.

    Plus, and this sounds incongruous, I think guys from that era probably match up better against Armstong's brand of trench warfare because of their ability and willingness to grind and wrestle and maul inside.

    So, as I finish writing this, I don't feel quite as bad about picking for Dixon as I did when I started this post. It doesn't seem quite so far-fetched and therefore my pick of Dixon winning a close, controversial SD in a butt-ugly but incredibly fascinating fight stands.
     
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Dixon was a beast and tragically underrated now. Frank Erne said he was better than Joe Gans, and I'm starting to think he was right.

    Still Armstrong is too much for him IMO.
     
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  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Armstrong would smash him to bits. Not even a contest.
     
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Armstrong overwhelming in this one.
     
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Is there any footage of prime Dixon?

    Armstrong is glorious and I think his skills stand up to the test even today.

    I can't really say an awful lot here due to not seeing Dixon ever box.

    So I pick Armstrong by default.
     
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  9. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Terrific post, Drew.
     
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  10. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sounds plausible. My pick too. I'm leaning towards Henry winning the tournament.
     
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  11. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Armstrong isn’t the best fighter ever he’s definitely in the top 1-5. I doubt Dixon (as great as he was for his time) could compete with an all-time beast like this.

    Armstrong via stoppage mid rounds. Armstrong was basically competing in a different sport to the turn of the century guys and his insane work rate would have Dixon all at sea.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Changing my vote to Dixon to cancel this out:eusa_dance:
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think so too, but a lot of that won't be allowed by the referee I guess. Though Dixon is so smart maybe he could adapt.

    But I definitely know what you mean. If you beat Armstrong by busting his rhythm, say, Dixon is qualified to do that.
     
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  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Not saying that's a bad pick at all, but I do think a couple of posts in this thread overrate Armstrong. He last made featherweight in 1937 I think. In 1936 he was beaten by Richie Fontaine (29-9-6) and Joe Conde (51-19-4). Tbf, he packed a lot of learning and a lot of fights in between those two dates, but he's going to have to beat quite a lot of fighters quite a lot better than Richie Fontaine to get there.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Blow out. IMO Dixon is over rated.