ATG Fighters that got by on skill and IQ

Gene Tunney was a physical monster! All of the people you mentioned are super athletes with the exception of George Benton.

Sanchez had 32 KOs in 46 bouts. He was a very hard puncher. Also, his stamina and durability were exceptional. Monzon had 59 KOs which is good power and was never knocked out in 100 fights, that's an exceptional chin.

 

Right. I get it it now, differing opinion on what an athletic fighter is. In that case yes, most of those guys were out of place. But can you answer me just one question? Do you consider Antonio Margarito a super athlete too? I’d imagine using this criteria he should be, but If not, why not?

 

Yeah, Margarito was a good athlete. Whether it was the bricks in his gloves or not he had a better than average KO percentage and knocked out the likes of Cotto and Martinez. That's good but not all time great power. Also, he'd routinely throw 1000 punches a fight. That's really good elite level stamina. He went the distance 48 times and was only stopped by Cotto and Mosley, so he had a decent set of whiskers. He also had better than average height and reach for his weight class. He definitely had several physical advantages or gifts that contributed to his success. I'd say that his physical gifts were much greater contributors than any skill or ring IQ he possessed, not that he was actually an ATG.

You know who'd be a good example of a fighter with severely limited physical gifts who got by on skill and IQ: Jorge Linares. No power, no chin, prone to cuts, a little speed but nothing special, still not an ATG though.

 

Basically, the only way to neutralize an ATG fighter's physical gifts is if they fight well above their best weight for an extended period of time or they fight for an extended period past their prime. Now, the guys who go up in weight the best tend to have two all time great physical characteristics: power and chin. But Duran being an all time great puncher at lightweight means he's just average or slightly below average at middleweight. Basically, he's a fat, old, average punching, undersized middleweight who gets by on skills; so his fights with Barkley, Hagler, Castro, and Camacho are all done with IQ with huge physical deficits. However, those are his only high level successes in about 40 fights at those ages and weights. It's proof that it can be done, but also proof of the limited success and rarity of how frequently it can be done.

Pacquiao, he was undersized his whole career at welterweight, but he still had that insane speed. It's not until the last four years (Vargas, Horn, Broner, Thurman) that he's been so past prime that he hasn't had even that. It's fair to say that he's been getting by on skill the last four years but he held definite physical advantages the first thirteen years, which didn't fully leave him until after his second decade in the sport.

Henry Armstrong was undersized at welterweight, but he still had that terrific stamina which was able to make up for some deficits. He wasn't really fighting in a hole until maybe his last fifty fights. He still had the wherewithal to beat Fritzie Zivic and Sammy Angott, even though they were right at the end of their primes too.

Another that comes to mind from recent times is Roman Gonzalez. He's a little undersized and outgunned at superfly weight. He's not fast and he's definitely slowed down a bit. He was a puncher at light fly and fly but doesn't appear to have the same power, although he has been getting knockouts recently. He's post-prime, but not too far gone yet. We'll have to see if he has any more success at the higher end of things. The Yafai schooling gives some reason for hope and confidence, but we still need more data to know if that wasn't a one off.

What I'm saying is that if you want to see fighters get by on pure skill, then you have to age them and move them up in weight. Even an old fighter can retain a knockout punch, so you have to take that away from them by moving them up and making them fight bigger guys. They have to be fighting younger, bigger, stronger, faster guys.

Acelino Freitas coming out of a five year retirement and moving up three weight classes to knock out Michael Oliveira was something else too.

 

To be fair to him, he was absolutely tiny at 147 and weighed in the 130s often, and was even that size for his MW title fight. His stamina, granite chin and freakish strength made him almost impossible to deal with for the guys he was against. His obliteration of Ross shows this.

Angott and Zivic are excellent wins for Armstrong.