ATG FLYWEIGHT TOURNIE: Round 1, Fight 2, WILDE takes close unanimous decision over BETULIO GONZALEZ

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Apr 13, 2020.


Who will win?

Poll closed Apr 16, 2020.
  1. Wilde will win

    55.6%
  2. Gonzalez will win

    44.4%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Another extraordinary contest between two very distinct types.

    Jimmy Wilde - what's to say? I will point out that it's what he did at bantamweight that makes him truly extraordinary; that his flyweight title claim was only semi-recognised although it was he himself, arguably, that brought the division some needed heft; that he struggled with Tancy Lee - and that the division was nothing like as strong as the one Gonzalez inhabited. All of that said, the astonishing things Wilde did bantamweight and featherweight, he tended to weigh in as a flyweight (or smaller) anyway. Form is form and the astonishing punching power of Wilde barracked his. How to pick against him?
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    Well here's an argument for picking against him: Betulio Gonzalez comes form an era, which, by comparison, is advanced. He learned proper boxing technique and applied it(something Wilde didn't do even for his own era's standards) as well as anyone in boxing. At his best, Gonzalez didn't so much throw punches as smuggle them across the border. Defensively sound, he could make you pay without your seeing where the offending uppercut had come from.
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    Finally: he beat Canto. I rate Canto a better flyweight than Wilde, for whatever that is worth. He beat the boxer. Can he beat the puncher under the following rules?

    15 round fight.
    1950s referee.
    8oz boxing gloves.

    Cast your vote and explain yourself in a post below! You have 3 days.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Can you also give us the ring size?

    18x18
    20x20
    22x22
    25x25

    It could matter.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Tell you what, give me the results for this fight based on all four different ring sizes.
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Hmm, I want to favour Wilde, and do, but I can't put my finger on why.

    Obviously, aside from his power, but it's probable Betulio goes the distance.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wilde ahead by a nose here.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Another deadlock!
     
  7. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Wilde was truly a phenom, and what stands out to me after reading and watching him for a long time is his, frankly, extraordinary judgment of range and distance, alongside his amazing reactions and general fluidity and natural instincts in the ring. His power doesn't need to be mentioned, though Betulio of course was an iron man alongside his brilliant punch slipping, and a very clever boxer in his own right, as he demonstrated against both Canto and Ohba, amongst many others. However, it did seem cleverer or longer boxers could give him the slip on the angle or counter, which is also what these two did, not without big trouble though. Also, though Wilde would be smaller here, it's not like he was frail, with him taking a prolonged beating from Tancy Lee whilst suffering from flu as an example of his hide and conviction (and which he promptly got revenge on with an 11th round stoppage).

    Where it get trickier to judge is due to Wilde's style of Boxing, and how you think it is effective (or not) in this particular rule-set. Here we have 1950s rules, which in my estimation is favourable to Wilde due to the neutral (slightly bigger) glove size and mainly the unattached thumbed gloves, which allows his brilliant parrying technique and strategy to still carry over to this bout. Other than this, though, the rule-set is generally neutral, and the only adaption needed would be from Wilde, to increase his pace in a (comparative for his era) shorter 15 rounder. Betulio would have no struggles, and Wilde adapts very quickly.

    Betulio's footwork also needs a mention - he was very springy on his feet and could possibly keep up with Wilde on the back-foot, which would give him major trouble. Combined with his head movement and general punch selection, Wilde would be missing lots of shots and would likely need a higher work-rate.

    I see Wilde having strong, consistent trouble throughout with the skills and toughness of Betulio, but I think his abilities, parries and lead would allow him to take rounds and formulate a strategy to move around him and eventually sting him repeatedly and eventually discourage him with his power. Close throughout, Wilde would lose early rounds and get stung himself by the Venezuelan iron man, before working back in, in a fight some think Betulio won due to his work rate and competitive activity..

    VERDICT: WILDE SPLIT DECISION
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  8. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Betulio is the better technician, and has the power to keep Wilde honest. Only problem was, he had a penchant for being overly economical and waiting for the perfect opportunity to as, Matt said, "smuggle shots across the border". Made him a hell of a threat at all times, but meant sometimes that he could be outworked. Wilde, for his flaws, kept up a inhuman pace over extended distances, throwing hard the entire time. I can see Betulio being on the defensive the whole time, snapping off a couple of sweet counters here and there, and then being utterly flabbergasted when the official(s) score it narrowly to Wilde.

    Wilde close UD 15.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    It would not change my pick in this fight. But it could vs Kane vs Canto.

    Given Cantos' stye and movement, I'd favor him in a 25 x 25 ring over Kane. The bigger the ring for a boxer with defense, the better his chances vs the puncher.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Just take an average between the two rings that you think would decide the result and use that.
     
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wilde ahead by a Welshman's nose.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Four hours remain.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    One hour remains.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jimmy Wilde wins a tension-drenched fight against Betulio Gonzlaez, who weathered an early storm to make Wilde sweat after repeatedly adjusting to the Welshman's odd style to take the fight away from him in the middle rounds; Wilde brought a storm of leather down on his game opponent in the twelfth to turn the tide in his favour and made all the running down the straight to take a close but unanimous decision.

    Now the favourite after the shock exit of Canto yesterday, Wilde progresses to the quarter final.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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