ATG list, 100 fighters?

Other black fighters won titles. I agree with the era but other fighters got it done. He didnt. Plus he had so many losses. He was great but i just cant put him in the top 20.

Keith

 

It was an EXTREME rarity when Black fighters won a title and when they did they would rarely defend against blacks either!!!

He didn't get the chance to win a title other than vs Walcott at welterweight which he deserved to win and got robbed with a draw in. if he got the chance he would have won several. He beat several hall of famers and fighters that were former or future champs including one of the greatest LHW's ever in O'brien, he proved to be better than the title holders of the day even though they wouldn't give him a shot. He coulda won titles from LW all the way up to LHW if it wasn't for race, he was that good and if not for Johnson who he fought closely he would have been able to win at HW as well!!!

As for having too many losses you're crazy man!!! He fought 317 times and only lost 31!!!!! Johnson lost way more often, if you look at it he lost twice as often. Johnson lost 11 times in 54 fights. That works out to Johnson losing 1 out of every 4.9 fights and Langford losing 1 out of every 10.2. If Johnson had as many fights as Langford he'd have double the losses.

 

Since people are posting their top 50 lists...here's one I made about a year ago. Haven't bothered to edit it since then, and don't plan on it. Really no need to make these long lists as they're so subjective, because their have been so many great fighters (many of whom I don't know much about at all), and how they can change depending on the day of the week and how I'm feeling, but here it is.

1. Harry Greb
2. Sam Langford
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Roberto Duran
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Joe Gans
9. Benny Leonard
10. Muhammad Ali
11. Packey McFarland
12. Barney Ross
13. Tony Canzoneri
14. Jimmy McLarnin
15. Charley Burley
16. Archie Moore
17. Willie Pep
18. Mickey Walker
19. Barbados Joe Walcott
20. Sugar Ray Leonard
21. George Dixon
22. Holman Williams
23. Lloyd Marshall
24. Pernell Whitaker
25. Gene Tunney
26. Joe Louis
27. Carlos Monzon
28. Carlos Ortiz
29. Kid Gavilan
30. Ike Williams
31. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
32. Jose Napoles
33. Marvin Hagler
34. Tommy Hearns
35. Alexis Arguello
36. Roy Jones Jr
37. Michael Spinks
38. Sandy Saddler
39. Vicente Saldivar
40. Fighting Harada
41. Eder Jofre
42. Julio Cesar Chavez
43. Emile Griffith
44. Lou Ambers
45. Evander Holyfield
46. Manny Pacquiao
47. Ruben Olivares
48. Dick Tiger
49. Freddie Steele
50. Jimmy Bivins

 

1 Duran
2 Chavez
3 Sanchez
4 Morales
5 SRR
6 Armstrong
7 Ali
8 Langford
9 Greb
10 Walker

11-100 arent worthy of mentioning

 

those lists are bad, from barely all of you guys. how old school guys are overrated is awful.

how can Jimmy McLarnin who has 11 losses in 54 fights be ranked higher than a manny pacquiao who climbed 8 divisions and crumbled everyone?

I will make an reasonable list in a hurry, its in need.

no old school overatnes, skills pays the bills. I will make a list where in a p4p sense the better boxer gets the better position, that is more important to me than having 300 fights like back in the days with 40 losses and I dont know how many wins vs guys who had records consisting of 3 wins 12 losses and 1 draw!!!

 

The same Jimmy McLarnin who beat Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Lou Ambers, Young Corbett III, Pancho Villa, Fidel LaBarba, Billy Petrolle, Bud Taylor, Kid Kaplan, and Sammy Mandell? Yeah, how can a guy who beat arguably 3 top 20 fighters of all-time, along with several other hall of fame level boxers be ranked above Manny Pacquiao? This isn't a list based solely on head to head prowess...accomplishments and resume are huge factors for me.

 

dealdealdeal:deal

give this man a medal. mclarnin beat arguably 5 ATG's!!!

 

Definitely worthy of being labeled as underrated :yep

 

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Manny Pacquiao
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Ricardo Lopez
7. Mike Tyson
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Pernell Whitacker
10. Roberto Duran

11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Louis
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Julio Cesar Chavez
15. Thomas Hearns
16. Khoasai Galaxy
17. Joe Calzaghe
18. Evander Holyfield
19. Bernard Hopkins
20. Aaron Pryor

21. Felix Trinidad
22. Carlos Monzon
23. Salvador Sanchez
24. Alexis Arguello
25. Erik Morales
26. Miguel Cotto
27. Marco Antonio Barrera
28. Shane Mosley
29. Oscar de la Hoya
30. Ronald Wright

 

I have him at 53. Again overrated by the Classic crowd, but a great fighter nonetheless.

Guys like Pancho Villa and Young Corbett and such are no better than Erik Morales of todays boxing, or JMM. It seems like after 40 years or so , every guy that had a winning record goes up in prestige so beating them gets over valued.

Yes he did beat Benny Leonard. IN Leonards last fight of his career.

Yes he did beat Ross, ONCE. In 4 tries.

He split with Canzoneri.

I don't see how you rate him ahead of any of those guys. He was never good enough to hold the title for any defenses, and went 2-3 in world title fights.

Plus he lost to Ray Miller in his prime.


That being said, I have him almost in the 50. But top 20 is out of the question.

Keith

 

Definitely a list from the classic forum.

the years 1980+ represent almost 30% of modern boxings time. Yet only three fighters are in the top 30??? And only one that fought past 1990??

Severe old time bias.

Keith

 

Harada shits all over Floyd and Pacqiuao.

 

Excellent argument, Keith. You really convinced me to change my views.

 

Valuev is above Ali ATG imo