ATG Middleweight Chin Tier list-The Top Forty

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jan 8, 2024.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,842
    45,567
    Mar 21, 2007
    ATG middleweights not ATG Middleweight chins.

    So i'm going to list the greatest middleweights of all time according to - well me, and I want you guys to weigh in casual or otherwise on what tier the middleweight chin should be in. I will list up to 50 if there is enthusiasm but let's do twenty for now. In the next post I'll list off the Tiers and we'll populate it as we go Some stuff:

    You're judging the chin at middleweight not in a p4p sense.
    If you don't think any of the tiers fit the fighter, just go for the one you feel is nearest.
    Hopefully say a bit about why they belong where you think they belong.
    Yes, you can use information from other weight classes but only to inform his resistance at 160.
    Yes, ranked fighters who already have a tier continue to be open for persuasive, detailed discussion.
    Thanks.

    I will list fighters one and two at a time, you say where you think they belong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
    BoB Box likes this.
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,842
    45,567
    Mar 21, 2007
    Titanium
    Dick Tiger, Canelo Alvarez, Gennadiy Golovkin, Bert Lytell, James Toney, Billy Conn, Mike McCallum, Harry Greb, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jack Dillon, Jake LaMotta, Mickey Walker, Teddy Yarosz, Mike Gibbons, Charley Burley, Bernard Hopkins.

    Iron
    Mike O'Dowd, Gene Fullmer, Joey Giardello, Billy Papke, Marcel Cerdan, Freddie Steele, Bob Fitzsimmons, Ray Robinson, Holman Williams, Stanley Ketchel, Jack Dempsey, Tommy Ryan.

    Solid

    Nino Benvenuti, Emile Griffith, Lloyd Marshall, Tony Zale, Roy Jones, Michael Nunn, Randy Turpin, Georgie Abrams, Sumbu Kalambay, Fred Apostoli,

    Average

    Tiger Flowers.

    Are you sure he's Top Fifty Material?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,842
    45,567
    Mar 21, 2007
    Dick Tiger: 60-19 stopped just twice in that eighty fight career, once with a broken thumb, once he was knocked unconscious by Bob Foster up at 175lbs.

    Where do you rate his chin at 160lbs? Why?

    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
    BoB Box likes this.
  4. The Cryptkeeper

    The Cryptkeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,574
    4,677
    May 9, 2023
    On numbers alone DT is almost top tier, Iron/Titanium based on your scaling. If you go 80 fights and only get stopped once then your chin is unquestionable.

    edit - It’s also got to be said that Tiger was in an awful lot of wars and got through to the final bell. Plus a KO at 175 cannot be held against him. On reflection his chin was titanium.
     
    crixus85 and McGrain like this.
  5. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,742
    10,474
    Aug 16, 2018

    Tiger is definitely up there for sure but I would say Hagler, Lamotta, Toney and GGG all are in the titanium category as well.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,842
    45,567
    Mar 21, 2007
    Well we will discuss other fighters in turn.

    “1)” does not denote “best@. “1)” denotes the first fighter to be discussed. Temporally.
     
  7. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    29,662
    8,113
    Feb 11, 2005
    At middleweight?

    Titanium.

    Only KD that he suffered at the weight was when he was put on a knee for a second by a quick counter by Griffith. With the exception of the early injury stoppage wasn't close to be stopped during that run. Was able to walk through flame throwers like Florentino Fernandez and Rubin Carter. Pretty much defines the word "indomitable".

    In a division with some legendary chins, he's definitely worthy of top tier status.
     
    Jel, crixus85 and McGrain like this.
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,842
    45,567
    Mar 21, 2007
    No.

    Currentky we are discussing Dick Tiger. The idea is to have discussion on these fighters one by one and come to a consensus about their ranking.

    I thought this was clear in the OP but I will try again.
     
  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,234
    28,815
    Jan 14, 2022
    @McGrain

    To answer the question definitely titanium at Middleweight only legitimately stopped two weightclasses above his best weightclass by an ATG puncher at Light Heavyweight in Bob Foster.
     
  10. yotam bing

    yotam bing Member Full Member

    157
    179
    Jun 24, 2018
    i know it wasn't exactly the assignment but i kind of got carried away thinking of where i would rank who and this happened.....

    as for tiger, he was clearly able to take quite a punch (taking the best fernandez, carter and torres had to give while never being shaken), however he was knocked out clean once as well as knocked down by griffith and was reportedly shaken by joey archer so i couldn't quite put him at titanium, so i settled on iron
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,743
    43,789
    Mar 3, 2019
    Titanium or Iron for me; no argument against either choice. If pressed, I'd put him right on par with Hagler, LaMotta, Toney, etc in Titanium.
     
    Clinton and crixus85 like this.
  12. yotam bing

    yotam bing Member Full Member

    157
    179
    Jun 24, 2018
    you're right it wasn't fair of me to disregard your instructions like that, i apologize and have deleted the previous post
     
    Terror likes this.
  13. crixus85

    crixus85 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,637
    1,420
    Oct 18, 2014
    Titanium Tiger.
    Took an all time great puncher in Foster to stop him. Remember also Dick, would probably have been suffering some early stage of the cancer, that struck him.
    As a matter of interest, which fight did he lose, through a broken thumb? thanks.
     
  14. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,742
    10,474
    Aug 16, 2018
    Sorry, I misread the OP. At Middleweight, I would say titanium for Tiger but then again, his era was not exactly made up of the biggest of hitters at 160 although it was full of great fighters. He fought Joey Giardello four times which was an incredible series of fights but Joey G. Was not much of a puncher. Emile, Joey Archer and Benvenuti all were not know for being murderous punchers but they all were great fighters. With that said, Tiger certainly was tough as nails and gave no indication that he couldn't handle the heaviest of punchers at 160.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Bob N Weave Full Member

    16,025
    17,704
    Sep 22, 2021
    My impression of Tiger tells me it was top shelf (Titanium) - Ruben landed and it was Ruben who ended up spinning leather trying to stay away.

    The Henry Hank fight was really good, in there shoot outs HH always ended up on wobbly legs and DT was still there clapping his hands together - HH fight was also a showcase for DT’s versatility with the left hand. Gene Fullmer was no slouch either, good fights I don’t even remember Tiger being hurt in any of the above mentioned bouts.

    Being popped by Emile Griffith isn’t anything to be ashamed of at all, good power on a counter from the best of the 60s (IMO) I don’t think Griffith lost anyone’s respect in a boxing ring, I’d add those fights to his “points” attributing to an argument for “titanium” I’m not saying much that hasn’t been said by Paul Pender in less words.

    “Tigers one of those fighters who just keeps coming. They are the kind you don't fight unless you have to” EDIT: I even forgot he fought Torres, fancy that, what a record.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
    young griffo and McGrain like this.