ATG Middleweight Chin Tier list-The Top Forty

Average for me, as well. And that's probably generous for Flowers.

 

Since he fought at 3 weights,you won't get one from me.

 

Flowers = 'Average'

 

It would be difficult to argue a case against a 'Titanium" chin rating for Dillon, despite the one KO defeat that might usually keep a candidate out of the running for that class. But there's enough mitigating evidence for that loss to almost disregard it, in my opinion; not least the fact that Dillon was generally considered to be a mere shadow of himself by then, after having had over 200 bouts against men of all sizes (and many notably bigger than he).

Dillon = 'Titanium'

 

Flowers is very much back to guessing territory for me. I can only think of average or solid as reasonable guesses.

Sam Langford, Jim Flynn, Kid Norfolk & Lee Anderson were all fighting above MW when they stopped Flowers and the Jamaica Kid stoppage was cuts. Jack Delaney could whack & Flowers wasn't stopped in his final 51 x bouts, despite MW title fights against Greb (x 2), Walker, HW Tut Jackson who had over 50 x KO's in his 75 wins and various other bigger men. So, his chin at MW may not have been quite as bad as his number of stoppage defeats suggest at first glance.

That said, 2 x stoppage defeats to Panama Joe Gans, who was barely more than a WW, isn't look. Flowers may have been a little green, but at the age of 26, I can't consider him pre his physical prime. I'd have no problem with solid, but I'll guess Flowers chin as being average.

 

Jack Dillon's record can't suggest anything other than titanium, imo.

Dillon was stopped aged 34 in his 231st fight. Prior to that the only time he'd been stopped was when the referee called the fight off because it was clear Dillon was in ill health. He was never stopped again.

During his other 247 x fights, Dillon fought the following at MW - Mike Gibbons x 2, Leo Houck x 3, Willie KO Brennan, Buck Crouse, George Chip x 8, Bob Moha x 4, Mike Twin Sullivan, Hugo Kelly, Frank Klaus x 4, Gus Christie x 4, Frank Mantell & Jack McCarron.

At LHW he fought Battling Levinksy x 9, Fireman Jim Flynn x 2, Bob Moha another 2 times, Gunboat Smith, Gus Christie, Jack Twin Sullivan, Vic Hansen x 2, Billy Miske x 5, Charley Weinert, Al McCoy x 3 and Harry Greb x2.

At HW he beat Frank Moran (205lbs), Tom Cowler (206lbs), Charley Weinert again, Fireman Jim Flynn again, Porky Dan Flynn and multiple other men in excess of 190lbs.

Relative to the era in which all these MWs competed, only Greb proved his chin to be titanium in a more unequivocal way, if quality of opposition faced is the key determining factor.

 

Kalambay solid
Flowers average
Dillon titanium
Steele iron

 

Delaney was a good puncher at LH anyway, with multiple stoppage wins over a durable Berlenbach. Won't hold those against Tiger that much. Flowers was giving up weight in many of the other cases and fighting over the MW limit. I have a sneaking suspicion that his chin was probably just as good as Nino in terms of punch durability at middleweight. That said, I can see why others might rate him average even if there are a number of asterisks next to those stoppages.

 

What i said was that if McCallum is in titanium then Monzon certainly has to be. I'll stand by that all day every day.

I don't rate a world class counter puncher having distance fights with Toney an incredible achievement. Toney was far more dangerous against aggressive fighters and any aggressive fighter relegating Toney to distance fights would be another thing altogether.

But as i said earlier when we discussed it i have no problem with McCallum being titanium. For me tho he's in the bottom half of the classification tho. I consider Monzon a bit above him.

 

as I always say, No Steele without McAvoy,

surely Ol' Jock will be included in this little opinion poll, approx 150 fights with little, if any Stoppages, plus he must have one of the highest KO Record among Middleweights.