ATG Ranking of Recent Boxers

On ability??? atsch

Oscar had the ABILITY to acheive more than them.

Or

Because of Oscar's ability he acheived more.

Or

Ability is something Oscar had more than those mentioned, hence his accomplishments.

 

Do people think less of Ali because he got his ass kicked a few times late in his career when he was old and shot? Or how about Sugar Ray Robinson? So why do people keep making arguments to debase Roy Jones because he's gotten his ass beat a few times lately?

The man was the consensus #1 boxer in the world for most of a decade. There's no legitimate way to claim he's not an all time great.

 

Tier 1:
Pac
Floyd (This is under the assumption he beats Mosley, else id still have RJJ above)
RJJ

Tier 2:
Oscar
Holyfield
Morales
Barrera
Hopkins
Lewis

Tier 3:
Mosley
Tito
Tyson
Marquez
Calzaghe
Vitali

This is just Philla's list in my order.


Someone asked whats the difference between ATG list and all time p4p, I think ATG list is more down to resume. All time p4p, I would have Tyson for example, much higher.

 

sometimes, opportunity and timing goes a long way as well. To look at someone's accomplishments on paper can give you an idea of how good he was, but to watch him fight in his most important moments will give you a better one. I believe MAB and Morales were better fighters than Oscar, despite his 32 titles in 96 divisions.

 

Better fighters do not lose to Junior Jones.

 

Who do you have as Oscar's top 5 wins? I find it hard to place him, I tend to give him the Tito fight as a Win but when I do that I question whether I should give him the loss for the Whitaker fight...

 

Amazing! Because Resume wise, Oscar has a better one than your top three. :deal

 

A Better question would be, who in the hell do YOU have for RJJ top 5, FMJ top 5, and Pac's top 5. :think

 

Oscar has lost to his top comp, Hopkins, Mosley, Floyd, Tito/Whitaker, he lost to one of them IMO but not both.

RJJ in his prime was unbeatable, 2 bonafide ATG's he utterly destroyed and is equal in terms of weights and title accomplishments.

FMJ is undefeated, despite being the smaller man and coming up to JMW, he still beat Oscar, granted Oscar was past it. Pac lost once in his prime but he soon avenged that loss.

 

Answer a question with a question...wow very clever...:roll:

FMJ:
Mosley (I did say this is under the asumption he beats Mosley)
Corrales
Oscar
Castillo
Hatton

Pac:
MAB 1
JMM
Morales 2
Cotto
Hatton

RJJ:
Toney
Hopkins
Tarver
Griffin
Hill

ODLH:
Whitaker
Chavez
Vargas
Quartey
Mayorga

 

Hmm.. Interesting. First you ask who ODLH's top 5 wins are, as to insinuate that that is how the ATG ranking is going to be measured. :think

I then turn around and ask you to tell me your top 3's 5 top wins, and you change it to looking "unbeatable, 2 bonafide ATG he "DESTROYED" :think, being undefeated, coming up in weight, only lost once....etc....

What happened to the TOP 5 wins??? :huh

Oscar fought through 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160. He too has been the smaller man in his journey from Featherweight to Middleweight.

Oscar too has beat and even destroyed ATG HOF. Not just TWO.

Oscar too has been undefeated, but he has also fought tougher opponents than the ones above mentioned, and ultimately lost his zero.

Oscar too has had IMO ONE defeat in his prime, and thatw as against Mosley. Everyone knows he beat Trinidad.

Oscar too has avenged the loss that came in his prime, most everyone agrees he beat Mosley in the rematch.

Most of Oscar's losses came against P4P fighters when he was past his best, past his prime. Once his skill level went down.

Of, Pac's losses were against two journeymen, and a past prime fighter in Morales who had recently lost to Zahir Raheem, OH MY!

Oscar also is a 10 time world champion, has title fights in the 20's, and has beat more champs and former champs than your top three.

Sure he has a couple more losses than Pac, RJJ, and a few more than FMJ, but, remember, he was past his best when he lost.

 

Hmm, all pretty close in terms of comp wouldn't you say? Key difference would probably be the rest of the resume don't you think? :think

 

I think this is a pretty good list....

I may have Tito a little higher, I don't understand how someone would say it is a piece of **** list.

 

You can measure ATG ranking any way, its a matter of opinion, most though will do it by best opposition beaten, and how they beat them, hence why I mentioned "destroyed". Winning a controversial decision vs an anihilation is really simple to separate, hence why RJJ's dominance over Hopkins & Toney are incredible, and MAB's dominance over MAB trumps his controversial win over JMM.


Oscar fought through 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160. He too has been the smaller man in his journey from Featherweight to Middleweight.

He beat one ATG HOF in Whitaker and destroyed one ATG HOF in Chavez...so it is just 2, unless Im missing someone :think That said, his win against Whitaker was controvesial, both guys were past it. Toney & Hopkins were both young, although Hopkins could be argued as green, RJJ dismantled both guys as if to show they werent even in his league.

I disagree. P4P, Tito & Mosley arent really that much tougher comp than Pac going up in weight to fight MAB and JMM, all are around the same tier level of fighters, they arent really much tougher than Bhop or Toney either. Difference is, the other 2 won those fights.

You cant change the scorecards. Mosley was controversial but it wasnt an outright blatant robbery, he lost, the loss was dealt with. If you are gonna say he won the Mosley fight, then he lost the Whitaker fight. Cant have it both ways. He lost atleast 3 times in his prime.

You dont loose a controversial decision and call that "avenging a loss".

In his prime, he still lost to Mosley twice and Tito, if you gonna class Tito as a win then we will class Whitaker as a loss.

I thought we were talking about prime? Pac, Unlike DLH isnt a spoonfed golden olympic boy, his early days as a pro was a learning curve, throw in the fact that he was dehydrated in those fights too. Basically, the Pac we know to be on the level of these guys, is not the Pac that lost to 2 journeymen...this is like bringing up Henry Armstrong first fight loss or Hopkins early fight loss to downplay their legacy. Wrong about Morales too, Morales who recently lost to Raheem didnt beat Pac, he beat Pac before loosing to Raheem.

Could also be argued that technically, Pac wasnt even prime for that fight, his footwork or right hand wasnt there.

Just 1 form of accomplishments, I could say RJJ went up more weight overall, from JMW to HW, Floyd is undefeated, Pac went up 10 weight divisions and hold the record for 4lineal titles and 7 titles in different weight divisions.

He's still a notch below the top 3 :deal

 

:rofl :rofl :rofl

Hey you have a future as a comedian!