ATG top 20

I'll get it started:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson

 

My top 10 with some background info (as you can see it's kind of long)

1. Ray Robinson - His 6th fight with LaMotta is the best performance on film. His two wins over Kid Gavilan are probably the best of his career, as Gavilan himself is one of the 5 greatest Welterweights of all time. Generally regarded as the greatest fighter ever because he's got a top 5 resume, rates easily inside the top 5 (if not #1) best all-around fighters we have film of, and his prime streak is pretty much unmatched throughout history. Something like 130-2-3 with both losses avenged and against outstanding opposition.

2. Sam Langford - Never got the chance to win a world title, but he beat great fighters from Lightweight to Heavyweight. Joe Gans, Harry Wills, Joe Jeannette, Jack Blackburn, Kid Norfolk, Jeff Clark, Sam McVey, etc. Obviously he picked up some losses along the way, but Langford may have the best resume in boxing history. Looks as impressive on film as anyone from his era too. He could easily be argued as #1.

3. Harry Greb - If Langford doesn't have the best resume ever, then Greb does. Ridiculous amount of top fighters on his ledger, from Middleweight to Heavyweight. No footage of him exists though. His best wins are against Gene Tunney (the only man to ever beat Tunney), Tommy Gibbons, Tommy Loughran, Mickey Walker, and just way too many to name.

4. Ezzard Charles - Again, great list of victims from Middleweight to Heavyweight. Looks fantastic on film too, although only a small amount exists of him in his Lightheavyweight prime. 3-0 against Archie Moore, 2-0 against Charley Burley, wins over Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, etc.

5. Henry Armstrong - Armstrong and Charles are more or less interchangeable for me. Armstrong was the Featherweight, Lightweight ,and Welterweight champion of the world, should have won a version of the Middleweight title too but only recieved a draw, and set the record for defenses at Welterweight. Great resume. An absolute tank, he jsut never stopped. The best win is over Barney Ross, which is on film.

6. Roberto Duran - Arguably the best all-around fighter we have footage of. Duran was close to perfection at his peak. Very dominant Lightweight champion with wins over two great Lightweights - Ken Buchanan and Esteban DeJesus twice. Arguably has the greatest win in boxing history when he defeated Sugar Ray Leonard. Also beat Carlos Palomino, Ernesto Marcel, Davey Moore, Pipino Cuevas, Emilliano Villa, Saoul Mamby, and 17 years after he took the Lightweight crown, he beat Iran Barkley for the Middleweight title. Quitting in the rematch with Leonard hurts his case though.

7. Benny Leonard - He and Duran are the greatest Lightweights of all time, Duran's success above the weight making the difference. A dominant champion in the division during a great era. Ahead of his time technique-wise. Lew Tendler, Freddie Welsh, Johnny Kilbane, Willie Ritchie, are among his best wins.

8. Muhammad Ali - You should know him well enough. A quick summary, he's got the best resume of any single-division fighter ever, and looks fantastic on film.

9. Mickey Walker - Welterweight to Heavyweight, beat a lot of great fighters along the way, often outweighed by 15-20lbs or so. his best wins include Jack Britton, Tiger Flowers, Maxie Rosenbloom, Lew Tendler, and Mike McTigue. His fights against Jack Sharkey (a draw), and Max Schmelling (knockout loss), two Heavyweight champions, are great displays of his toughness.

10. Archie Moore - Tremendous longevity, resume, and ability on film. Fought for about 30 years, Great wins against the best of the Black Murderer's Row, like Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase, Jimmy Bivins, and Bert Lytell. Also beat Joey Maxim and great Lightheavyweight Harold Johnson, and a good amount of Heavyweight contenders, with his only losses at Heavyweight coming to Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, and Muhammad Ali (when he was like 50). '

Other guys to look into for a top 20 or so are Ray Leonard, Willie Pep, Barney Ross, Joe Walcott, Joe Gans, Pernell Whitaker, Charley Burley, and Tony Canzoneri.

 

Jersey Joe Walcott is amazing

 

the cobra the only change i would make is Pep in the top 10

 

Mickey Walker at # 8? Wow I dont see him as top 20 material, especially over Willie Pep. but good effort and other picks nonetheless

 

No problem :good

I think Pep could probably be as high as #6, the top 5 just have too much on him in terms of resume imo. There isn't much between the guys from 6 through about 12 for me. Walker at 9 seems right, He's got great weight-jumping achievements and an excellent resume. The very definition of P4P.

 

In 2002, the writers of Ring Magazine published a ranking of the 80 best fighters of the previous 80 years. The entirely subjective nature of any list comparing fighters across different weight categories and different eras is bound to be fodder for debate. This list was no exception. See what you think ... 1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_80_best.htm

I myself have Louis over Ali, but the rest of the list looks good. In fact, I'd move Joe up to 2 and have Henry Armstrong at 3 followed by Ali.

 

I am more interested to hear his first impressions on the top 10 greatest heavyweights of all time. I am dying to hear his first impressions of Marciano. Should be interesting.

 

Charles, Armstrong and Langford are pretty much interchangeable. I myself have Armstrong at 2.

 

I'm starting to think Charles is getting a bit overrated nowadays, being in people's top 4 and all. His resume is fantastic, no question about it, but it's really not much better than a guy like Jimmy McLarnin's, and to be frank, there are more than a few fighters that look better on film.

 

Look better on film than a 1946-1949 Ezzard Charles? Like who? Charles at 175lb was your quintisential fighter. He could outbox you, outmanuever you, outslick you, outsmart you, outspeed you, outgrind you, and outpunch you. Charles is the most versatile fighter of all time at 175lb, he had no weanesses at that weight. He is one of the best ever punchers at 175lb with a killer like instinct that gave him the nickname "Cobra". His handspeed was off the charts, his inside fighting skills were unbelievable for a Defensive counterpuncher who preferred to outbox you from a distance. His combinations and flurries were wicked with tremendous power behind the shots. His footwork was magical, like his feet were rubber balls bouncing up and down in and out, Against Valentino he looks so slick its sickening! His left jab shot out there like a mongoose latching onto a prey and he combined that jab with one of the best 1-2s in boxing history. defensivley, his blocking skills were some of the best techniques ive seen, his upperbody and head movement were very solid, and he proved his chin vs the best set of punchers in history...He also proved he could overcome adversity and win wars like the 3rd Archie Moore fight when he was on the brink of defeat.


The Cobra at his best is not to be bested

 

Armstrong is in nearly everyone's top 4, but does he look better on film, or does he have a better resume? I think Charles is certainly on the level of someone like Armstrong, which is to say he's pretty secure for a spot inside the top 5 imo.

 

I think pep's resume gets sold short.

1. He Holds arguebably the single greatest win of all time with a clear decision over a top 3 ATG featherweight in his prime, while past his own best.

2. He cleaned out his entire era wiping out the entire 1940s Ring Magazine top 10 list throughout the decade in a very competitive featherweight era. Not many champions can claim cleaning out there division for an entire decade straight. Among those fabulous featherweights/Ex Champions he defeated were Albert Chalky Wright, Phil Terranova, Humberto Sierra, Sal Bartolo, Miguel Acevedok, Harold Dade, Eddie Compo, Joey Archibald and defeated a Prime ATG Manuel Ortiz who bumped up to fight him. Pep also was ahead on the cards after 9 rounds at age 36 far past his prime against Feathwerweigh Champion Hogan Kid Bassey

3. Pep showed he was able to step up above his weigh class and compete at the highest level. He defeated Top Black Murders row lightheavyweight contender Willie Joyce and Calirfornia Jackie Wilson, Lightweight contender Allie Stolz, beat lightweight Champion Paddy Demarco, and was highly competitive in a razor think loss to a 10lb heavier Prime ATG lightweight Sammy Angott.


To me, Pep did everything you want for a fighter who chose to dominante in ONE weight class, which in my opinion is just as important as stepping up to other weight classes. there is nothing at 126lb pep did not accomplish