ATG top 20

1
2 Robinson or Greb, either has the right to be NUMBER 1, So I put them both at 2, and let you guys fight over who earn the top spot. I favor Greb for his record against HOFers
and ATG's like Tunney and Walker.

3 Armstrong's weight jumping feat will of couse never be repeated. The true pound for pounder imo. Sometimes I have Armstrong over Robinson 50 percent of the time.

4 Barney Ross other weight jumper, Held 3 weight titles at the same time BEFORE Armstrong with his lightweight, Welterweight and Jr Welterweight in 34 I belive. Or was it 33? Either way, he gets in on his weight jumping, and beating fellow greats Canzi, and Mclarin, and other top fighters like Petrolle, Ross was perhaps the best fighter in his era. (The Armstrong era will follow the Ross era.)

5 Rubby Fitz, He did something no one before him did, he was the first, and writers were calling Fitz pound for pound the best fighter before Suger Ray Robinson(Dont belive the crap with Burt Suger saying Robinson con the phrase)
Knock out Sharkey but got DQ, because the ref was in on a fix, Also beat Jack Dempsey, and Corbett, 2 great fighters. His best fight is on film lol. Being the first to hold the middleweight heavyweight and lightheavyweight crowns is a feat in itself and for that should be in the top ten pound for pound.

6 Toney Canzi, Shock? Dont be, 2nd best fighter in his era, (Ross being 1) He has beating and fought more HOFER's than Ross, but he never got back at Ross this ended up 2nd best, He was the first man since Bob Fitz I belive to hold 3 weight divsion, which is a good 30 year gap between them with his featherweight, lightweight and jr welterweight titles. Wins over Taylor, Dundee, the great Benny Bass, Singer, Berg, Ambers, Kid C and others make his resume one of the best.

7, Micky Walker, He was like James Toney with out eating the cheese burgers with out gaining the weight for heavyweight lol. 2 weight champ with Welterweight and middleweight, I relly loved his bout with Tommy Milligan, Walker destory him, Perhaps Walker's best fight on film. There are a lot of 2 weight champs? But why does Walker make it in the top ten pound for pound?? This middleweight jump up to the heavyweights, WITH OUT GAINING weight, and did a rampage on the heavyweights that the heavyweights today can still feel. His best fight there was perhaps the draw of Sharkey, and got rated as high as 3, and he did weigh more than the middleweights. And he was rank 3rd for heavyweight. Beating such contenders like Risko,Uzcudun, Levinsky, and drawing with Sharkey. It finally took power puncher Max Schmeling to put that middleweight in his place. People today relly dont know how close Walker was in getting a heavyweight title shot. All he needed was to beat Schmeling, and he could not be denie that shot.

7 Willie Pep. Feather weight champ, but he beat many great fighters, and won like what? His first 60 or so bouts before he lost to a over the weight match with Sammy Angott? Saddler, Demarco, and Wright are relly the only ones that come to mind on who he beat. But he long rein and over 200 wins gets him win.

8 Sam Langford,
9 Joe Walcott
and ten Benny Leonard.

 

Manuel Ortiz? Prime ATG bantamweight champion both weighed in at 127

Willie Joyce?? he only beat henry armstrong and ike williams!!!

California Jackie Wilson? One of top fighters of black murders row

What about all the other very good featherweights of the 1940s Pep beat in a highly competitive era like Sal Bartolo, Phil Terranova, Humberto Sierrea, Miguel Acevado, Harold Dade, Eddie Compo

 

Good fighters, but I suppose Pep made them 2nd best with his skills, Hard to tell sense Pep was just so over the peers of his era.

 

Pep's era gets undersold. But I have never seen a fighter dominate an entire era of Ring Magazine top 10 heavyweight contenders in ONE DIVISION like Pep did for a WHOLE DECADE.

 

Anyone feel Leonard has a legit claim to Top 10 status:think

 

sure smitty. he sits at # 11 on my list, but i can see it

 

SRL beat the best lightweight, best junior welterweight, best welterweight, and best middleweight of his era. IMPRESSIVE. If his eye had remained healthy and he had continued boxing and beaten the likes of curry, starling, mccallum, norris, kulumbay, etc he would be top 3 p4p all time

 

sure, but Hagler was not at his best.

 

Yep, when you look at the names Benitez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler you just say WOW and combine that with his great skill, its tough to not put him up there. He is one of the few to have four ATG names, let alone one on his resume. I had him at around 13 or 14, but I am thinking about moving him to 9 a couple spots from Duran.

 

I'll try to answer this question this way-filmed fights to seek out

1890's---triple champion Bob Fitzsimmons is on film against Jim Corbett. Very primitive film, but two of the best of the era.

1900-1920--there is a good film of Sam Langford against Jim Flynn. The great lightweight Joe Gans was filmed. The best heavy of the era, Jack Johnson, was filmed several times, against Burns, Ketchel, Jeffries, Flynn, Moran, and Willard. The Johnson-Jeffries fight was the greatest spectacle of the era. There is a very clear film of Tommy Burns against Bill Squires.

1920's--There is a lot of good film of the famous heavy champ Jack Dempsey and he looks good on film. So does Gene Tunney, at his peak in the 1926 film against Dempsey. Mickey Walker has some good film. His effort against later heavy champ Jack Sharkey is a can't miss. Benny Leonard's films are generally poor, but there is a clear film of him with Jimmy McClarnin. He was 36 but still shows why he had been great. Tommy Loughran is on film--the best against Walker. Unfortunately, the great Harry Greb is not on fillm. The crude, wild punching Luis Angel Firpo is on film knocking out Bill Brennan and Jess Willard, as well as his not to be missed fight with Dempsey.

1930's--plenty of film of the great Joe Louis. Also seek out Armstrong-Ross, Ross-McClarnin, and Billy Conn against Louis and Melio Bettina. The crude Max Baer is on film several times and is always worth watching. Try his fights against Schmeling, Carnera, and Galento. The Louis-Schmeling fights were the greatest of the era and there is good film.

1940's to 1950's--Sugar Ray Robinson is spectacular in many films from the fifties. There is some good film of Willie Pep. Check out Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles, as well as the flashy Kid Gavilan. The important fights of heavy champ Rocky Marciano are all on film. Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston are on film from early in their careers. Check out Patterson against the slick Joey Maxim. and also the films of the wild punching Bob Satterfield, also Liston against Cleveland Williams.

After 1960--all the great fighters are on film, generally from early in thier careers, and the films are much better. Your reading will tell you who the great fighters were and their films are not hard to find on youtube.

 

What can I say other than that you completely exagerrated just about every single thing you wrote? I've never been anywhere near as impressed with any of the footage of him that I've seen, even though he was obviously a very skilled, effective fighter.

Who looks better on film to me? To be honest I'd rather not make a list because it would likely be a bit too extensive and I'm not really in the mood to take on the forum all at once. He's a bit like a bigger, slower version of an older MW Robinson with a lower workrate.

 

good post mate

 

i'll have that:good:good