Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by asero, May 1, 2020.
Chavez all day!!
De la Hoya beat more world title holders, had a marginally longer span between his first and last world titles, and won those world titles in six weights as opposed to Chavez's three.
But is he the greater fighter? Nope.
De la Hoya gets a hard time (overly hard, in my opinion) from some, but at those key legacy-defining moments which could have elevated him to the level of a Chavez, he was just found wanting. He has plenty of world titles, good names and strong performances to his credit, but what he doesn't have are those really outstanding victories which encapsulate and illustrate that fine margin between very, very good and great. I'm talking thoroughly dominant or really high-quality wins against an outstanding contemporary who was at the top of their game at the time, in a fight which people will always remember.
Chavez has those kind of defining victories against Rosario and Taylor (and this is coming from someone who isn't as sold on the Taylor stoppage as some - but that's another story). Both of these guys were young, in great form, the toughest fight available to Chavez at those particular times at 135 and 140 respectively. Yes, Rosario had a couple of losses on his record: in one of them he'd lost in a toss-of-a-coin kind of brawl in which he'd dominated and almost won early, against a man he'd already beaten; and in the other, he lost by the odd point or so in a fight where he'd given a much slicker opponent absolute hell. But he'd never been completely mastered and taken apart the way Chavez did. As for Taylor, he was one of the great talents of that era, and Chavez got the very best version of Meldrick we've ever seen. Rightly or wrongly, he pulled the fight out of the fire - and it was a spellbinding fight. A classic where both men enhanced their reputations.
When those kind of moments and opportunities came for De la Hoya, he just couldn't quite grasp them. The Trinidad and perhaps the first Mosley fights should have been his Rosario / Taylor moments. Now I think he beat Trinidad, but I refer back to my point about leaving no room for doubt, and putting on a performance when it matters most which earns you that tag of being a truly great. That fight was nothing like that, even if Oscar had got the decision. Both men came out of that one with their reputations dented, if anything. The showdown everyone had been wanting for years, the biggest non-Heavyweight fight of the 1990s - and it was a stinker. That wouldn't have necessarily mattered if De la Hoya had kept on with his boxing lesson and stayed professional until the end, but as we know he didn't. He tried to negotiate a defining moment, rather than taking it. Defeating Mosley the following year could have atoned for that, because there would have been no asterisk against it: Mosley was prime, unbeaten, talented and in great form (unlike say, a Chavez of 1996 or a Whitaker of 1997). But instead he was beaten clearly by Shane and didn't give the best account of himself.
The closest thing he has to those kind of outstanding moments are the wins against Quartey and Vargas, but they're just not quite the same for a number of reasons which I'm sure you can all identify. Fantastic fighter, but he had plenty of chances to elevate himself to legendary status - he just wasn't quite there. Chavez, whatever his faults as a fighter, certainly was.
I've got Oscar.
Oscar had 26 wins in title fights from 130 to 160 , counting WBO (and the questionable Sturm win).
Chavez had 31 wins in title fights from 130 to 140.
I have to watch the Oscar vs Julio fights yet, maybe this weekend I'll do it.
Although it's close, Chavez is a greater boxer than Oscar for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. 1. He achieved a historic undefeated run which will probably never be broken and 2, because he's Mexico's peoples champion. h2h is a different story, DLH would always be a nightmare for Chavez, stylistically I just don't see how Chavez is gonna beat him prime for prime.. Chavez was a short JWW who maxed out at that weight class while DLH was an absolute phenom at 135 and 140.
I was there at the end of Chavez's prime and the beginning to the end of DLH's prime. DLH was as great a boxing champion as there ever has been, he was 3 rounds away from securing the fighter of the decade for the 90's in his fight with Trinidad, something Chavez could of never achieved as great as he was. DLH just had a lot of misfortune and bad luck during the new millennia. Not only that, Oscar was also hated heavily by Mexican boxing fans after his 2 whoopings of their peoples champion Chavez, the last one making him quit. Since Oscar is a Mexican American and a media darling of suburban California, Oscar would of never gotten the same credit as Chavez no matter what he did.
Oscar's resume and legacy as insane as it already is would look a whole lot different if correct decisions went his way and retired after Mayorga.
Chavez and it's not even close. In his prime, the Lion from Culican was one of the best pressure fighters there was. Don't mistake pressure fighter for a face-first brawler. JC Superstar was a master at cutting off the ring and had excellent head and waist movement (that was good defense. Not the running around and hugging type of defense). His chin was undeniably one of the best, if not the best, in the game. He not only beat you, but he would also ruin careers (i.e., Rosario, Haugen, and Meldrick Taylor come to mind).
Although ODLH was a good fighter, he was a carefully matched fighter. In his younger years, he was matched up with old, smaller, and past their prime fighters to give casual fans the illusion that he was beating former champs. See how his highlight reels KOs started to decline as his competition got younger, faster, and were naturally his weight class. He shamelessly ducked Winky Wright and Fernando Vargas until Trinidad ruined him. He fought a lot of leftovers like Chavez II, Yory Boy Campas, Mayorga, Gatti, Macho Camacho, and others. All name fighters who were low risk and a high reward. However, as one poster said on here, ODLH overachieved in his career and good for him.
Got to be Chavez.
The answer is Chavez but i prefer Oscar
Forgot I even wrote a response on this thread but a lot of people are smoking crack if they think it isn’t close between these two, they’re resumes and achievements hardly dwarf each other. Oscar, like Roy Jones before him is the victim of recency bias. A lot of people don’t like him cause he’s a weirdo and punked GGG while promoting Canelo. Give it 10 years and that’s when people will truly rate and realize what a great fighter Oscar was.
Chavez 3 weight world champ, historic undefeated streak.Top 5 Wins over Meldrick Taylor, Chapo Rosario, Roger Mayweather, Hector Camacho, Ramirez. 18-4-2 all time record vs champs or former champs.
Oscar DLH 6 weight world champ, Olympic Gold Medal. Top 5 wins over Pernell Whitaker, Ike Quartey, Chavez 1, Genaro Hernandez, Fernando Vargas. Not even counting his controversial fights with Mosley 2, Trinidad and Sturm. 20-6 record over former champs.
I feel like Oscar deserves this. He fought and beat better comp and went through the weights. He also beat Chavez twice in fights that were too one sided to be written off due to Chavez’s age and outperformed Chavez against Whitaker.
I look at Chavez’s record and see nothing that Oscar couldn’t do but see the opposite when I sub Chavez for Oscar.
Julio is a level above. It's quite easy to see actually.