ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Holyfield or Lewis?

Ok, that's up to you, but I don't count being big as an ability.

 

holyfield imo, but its close.

 

This ^

 

At HW Lewis, by far. Holyfield is constantly overrated at HW (not at Cruiser) for two reasons, he fought all the big names and had unbelievable heart.

Holyfield won the title from a fat, undertrained Douglas. Lewis knocked out a top - shape Ruddock. Holyfield rarely KO'ed an opponent who came in shape. Holyfield is 1:2 against Bowe, really 0:2 against Lewis, 1:1 against Moorer, 1:1:1 against Ruiz. So basically against four fighters of his era, he did not establish himself as the superior fighter H2H over multiple fights. Lewis avenged his only losses. And Lewis would have beaten Holyfield 9 out of 10. He was far more dominant, more KO's and easy wins.

 

Great post. :good

 

Holyfield if his whole career is considered, Lewis if the focus is only on the heavyweight division.

 

Well that's ridiculous.
Surely the fact that big co-ordinated guys are rare, shows the big guys with ability should be ranked highly because of it?

Where do you draw the line? Wlad? Vitlay? both are as big, if not bigger then Lewis? Right then, so no matter what they achieve in the future they can never be great because they're too big??? (Not saying they are greats, just using an example)
Ali was bigger than most of his opponents too. As was Foreman. They're no long greats then?

Maybe strength should be ruled out as well, as while that can be trained, some guys are born stronger than others.

Height and reach. That's what made Hearns so damn good at times. Perhaps we should strike him from being a great fighter, because it wasn't fair he was so much taller than his opponents, and had a better reach.


That's what boxings about. Working out your physical strengths and weaknesses, and fighting accordingly.

Chin is something you either have or don't. Holy had a great chin. Perhaps we should strike him from ATG status, because I don't count blocking punches with your face as being a boxing skill, just a freak of nature.

Seriously, it's a package. The guys physical attributes (whether it's strength, size, chin, speed, endurance, whatever) - and then how he uses it to get results.

Michael Grant was big too. Didn't do him much ****ing good did it?

 

Because you disagree with something, it doesn't mean it's ridiculous.

ATG lists are all about personal opinion.

And I base mine, amongst other things, on skill level.

Talking about Hearns is totally irrelevant to this discussion because he was not in the HW division. In other weight divisions, it is easier to compare fighters, because they all weigh the same. Some are taller and lankier, some are shorter and stronger. It's give and take. Because they all weigh in at the same weight, they start the fight, at least on one level, on an even footing.

At HW, the waters become muddied because there is no weight limit.

I'm not saying I discount big guys. That would be ridiculous. But what i'm saying I prefer to base my ATG list on skill level. Really big guys in the HW division start with a big advantage straight away. Look at Valuev. The only thing he has is his size. Very little skill. But his success is soley based on his size and the fact he is a lot bigger than anyone else.

If the guy is big and he has skills, like Lewis, then he is going to be rated high. But I rate Holyfield higher, because amongst other things he has more skill.

Perhaps a barometer of how good a HW boxer is how would they have fared if they fought people their own size their whole career? Would Lewis have been as successful fighting people his own size? I put it to you that perhaps he wouldn't.

It's interesting that the first fight Lewis ever fought when they guy he was fighting was a similar size and skill level, Lewis was struggling until the fight was stopped because of a cut.

 

Holyfield

 

This is unfortunate, but it's also worth mentioning Lewis wanted to fight all the top guys in their prime, but was always squeezed out of the equation.

There's no doubt Lennox was the most ducked fighter of that Don King dominated era. King just didn't want to take the risk.

 

Lewis. He beat twice Holyfield and found the right time to retire.

 

Holyfield overall.

Lewis at Heavyweight.

 

Holyfield is greater overall in accomplishments. Lewis was a better heavyweight.