ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Marciano or Monzon?

No, Tonga's up there power wise. There are plenty of knowledgeable posters from here to the boxrec forums that'll vouch for that.

I'm not saying top 10 or anything, but the man could bang. His heart was utter crap, but his power was not.

 

Tonna was not a very big puncher ,certainly not in the top 10 and, I would say not in the top 50 at 160,he NEVER KOD A RATED MIDDLEWEIGHT.In fact he the only top middle he beat was Alan Minter ,and that was a stoppage due to a head butt.I have seen most of Tonna's fights he was crude but strong,and a very dirty *******.I was ringside when he fought Minter at the old Empire Pool at Wembley ,he got a hiding.Anyone who thinks Tonna was a great puncher should do some research.

 

Monzon slightly edges Marciano due to his longer reign, with more defenses and against higher opposition.

 

Meh, i've seen a good number of his fights as well and i'd say he hit about as hard as someone like NIgel Benn, who never really stopped anyone good that was in their prime either.Or Mugabi...and on and on.Colin Jones never stopped anyone good either...still anyone that watched his fights could he was a big puncher.It tends to be the case with the pure puncher contenders in strong divisions that they only have a very small number of quality wins, a whole lotta brutal knockouts over second and third tier fighteres, then maybe some valient losses against the top men.

Keep in midn most of the world level middles he fught were granite chinned superior technicians.Finnegan, MInter, Valdez(who he had badly hurt) Monzon...almost everyone he fought that he was the better talent than got brutally knocked out.MIddleweight is so deep, i've no idea where i'd rank him power-wise, but he was undeniably a big puncher imo.

Unfortunately most of the limited bangers lack the luxury of fighting cushy defences against journeymen like a Khaosai Galaxy.

 

:good

 

Carlos Monzon

14 title defences
7 year reign
Undefeated in his last 80 bouts
Fought every worthy challenger there was
Dominated most of his rivals
Fought in his rivals homelands (Nino, Tonna, Licata, Bogs)

It is true that Napoles and Griffith were past there primes and smaller than Monzon. But they were still great fighters. KO wins over Nino Benvenuti were magnificent. Also, Monzon beat very good fighters like Moyer, Valdez, Briscoe, Mundine, Fernandez.

That's better quality of opponents than Rocky had. Monzons reign was longer and more dominant.

 

It was not like Marciano was in his 20's either. He was 31 vs Charles and 32 vs Moore.

 

This is true ,but I think we can agree Rocky was in his prime ,at least for the Charles and walcott fights whereas the reverse was not the case.

 

I think Walcott was in his prime, of if not, near his peak. That first fight with Marciano was amazing. knock him down, and outbox the Rock and did amazing movements to confuse Marciano.

The first Walcott fight proves either 3 of one thing.

1 Marciano is over rated, its like Holmes being school by a shot Ali, in 80, before Holmes came back. Of couse Holmes whip Ali good in that fight. That cant be it, Ali was not thowing any punchings, and Walcott was thowing tons, Walcott was also moving better than Ali.

2, Marciano is a ATG, and beat a peak or prime Walcott. Which I take is number 2.

Or 3, Rocky just play sucks because he let a old man give him problems for 12 rounds.

I lean with option 2 imo,

 

Some of Monzon's best names were older blown up welters.

 

The case may be made that both men had there best victories over older men but the truth is that Walcott,Moore,Charles, Griffith,Benvenuti,Briscoe, were top of the heap and beat most of the younger men to get there. We can see today that moving up in weight made B-hop the best version that he ever was and the present version would dominate the Hopkins of 10-15 years ago...Moore was prime and at the best win streak ever and Griffith held his own with the best even when he fought Carlos...that being said I have to say Marciano was always better the 2nd time around and he proved it vs Lowry,Lastarza,Walcott,Charles...Monzon on the other hand as he primed did better the first time and it was his opponent that improved the 2nd time around such as Griffith and Bottier.....Carlos was a tall middleweight and NINO did really start to lose it starting with the 1st Bethea fight but Nino was a playboy and he lost his legs but Carlos got him quicker the 2nd time around still if you look @ Marciano LB 4 LB 186lbs of pure relentless power you could compare him with the platinum of 126lb Willie Pep and he would not be close as a thing of beauty but as a solid relenless power punching machine and fearless rythym breaker (Marciano was close to platinum as well 5"11 186 lbs or at least 24 K

 

Marciano because he was a better more impressive fighter apart from anything. Dominating at HW is harder than dominating at MW, its a deeper weight class, its the premier weight class and fantasy anoraks simply don't account for the fact that everyone wants to be HW Champ.

Secondly Charles and Moore are P4P above everyone Monzon fought other than Napoles. Charles and Moore were the same size as Marciano but Napoles was a natural LW. Louis is greater than Monzon anyone fought. Marciano fought bigger men, Monzon didn't.

 

Monzon was one of the greatest fighters at his weight. Marciano just came around at the right time.

 

MW that Monzon fought, was one of the deepest in history. He fought all time greats past their prime (just lke Marciano) and young challengers in their prime. HW era of Marciano isn't that highly regarded.

Maybe Charles, Moore and Louis are higher P4P than Benvenuti, Napoles and Griffith but they weren't quite the same fighters they used to be.

 

Moore himself said he no longer had the legs when he fought Marciano.
Hopkins turned pro as a LH so he really came down not went up,at 6 foot tall he is slightly taller than Monzon.