ATG: Who Ranks Higher, Pacquiao or Arguello?

Alexis does not rank lower than Pacquiao anyhow, just obviously quite a lot of people haven't looked into Alexis' career. If they fought Marquez was a tough match-up for Manny, Alexis would have been a nightmare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW8u...pod.com/arguello.html&feature=player_embedded

 

It's quite an apt comparison in that they both had early losses before going on to ATG careers, I think. Pac has won in more divisions, but I don't think he would have got the belt at 140 if he'd had to fight Aaron Pryor for it. Arguello would also have ****ing demolished Hatton.

 

well to be fair to Pacquiao we only see highlights and talk of the great moments for Arguello while for Pacquiao every single fight is dissected. I'm looking on boxrec and Arguello has a MD loss to Vilomar Fernandez and also went the distance against guys with questionable records and tasted the canvas against Jose Luis Ramirez..

So its not so cut and dry

 

I couldn't even name the opponents that put Manny down on the canvas early on his career. This isn't all that relevant when discussing a career like Arguello's, who had 90 fights and won championships in three separate weight divisions. Much like Manny, Arguello improved over time which caused him to dominate in the divisions he won his titles. Pacquiao never dominated at Featherweight, and he hadn't even fought one of the premier champions at 135lb.

The only thing that stopped Alexis from being a 4 weight world champion was his admirable character. He didn't see the point in taking on a fighter of a David Diaz quality to win the belt, he gunned for the best 140lb that was out there. That was Aaron Pryor, and he gave him a damn good fight, and any other 140lb on that night except for maybe Chavez and Whitaker would have fallen. Hatton, certainly.

I'm not trying to discredit Manny. Like I said, it's not a forgone conclusion, but Alexis has been disgracefully written off on this forum. By your own admission. I'm just trying to get things on a level playing field, and whereas Arguello does not have wins up at 147lb, he was more consistant with his title defences, and I think fundamentally he was the superior fighter to Manny.

It's close, but I give it to Alexis.

 

and Jose Luis Ramirez when Arguello was in the heart of his prime. A fighter who lost to Ray Mancini by UD but was able to put Arguello on the canvass and take him to a split.

However when a guy fights 5 times in 1 year these things have to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

That is your reasoning for having Pacquiao above Alexis?

Okay then, Ali was put down on the canvas against Henry Cooper? Do we penalize him for that, or do we give him the credit he deserves for overcoming adversity, and brutally stopping Cooper in the next round?

You decide.

 

When a guy fights 5 times in 1 year, has over 90 fights, displays dominance in three seperate weight divisions, and still maintains a very high KO percentage anyway, we can forgive Arguello for being knocked down.

I wasn't even addressing the small point about Manny being knocked down by a jab because I acknowledge that it's not all that relevant. He came back from that and displayed dominance in multiple weight divisions, just like Arguello did. What happened over the long term is whats in important, which is why I hope you feel silly for even bringing Ramirez into the discussion.

 

RIP AA.

Pac is clearly the better fighter out of the two, he'll be knockin on SRR, Armstrong and Grebs door soon...

 

Elaborate?

Why is Pacquiao "clearly" the better fighter?

 

of course i don't feel silly

are you serious? Any fight that Arguello fought is part of the discussion and same for Pacquiao. And same for their opponents and their opponent's opponents and so on.

 

Here's my take:

Right now, they are pretty much on an even plane.

First Arguello. The guy won three titles in as many division and is both in the top 5 or so on two of them, 126 and 130. He fought almost everyone that needs to be faced. Olivares, Escalera, Mancini to name just a few.

On the other hand, Pac more titles but has not stayed at one division long enough to even break the top 10, but he has made a lot of statement on each one. His true potential was realized at 126 onwards, the highlight was wins over MAB, EM, JMM, DLH and Hatton.

I'd say if Pac beats a legit guy at 147, (Cotto, SSM, FMJ) then he'll certainly be in a much higher place.

 

I think you should feel silly.

You didn't even elaborate on why you made the point in the first place. You just stated that Arguello was once dropped in his career. I don't know about you, but I don't see why that would factor in when discussing who is higher ranked? Like I've said before, I never brought up Manny being dropped early on in his career when I tried to explain why I had Alexis higher because I didn't think it was big enough deal. This is the fight game, punches are being thrown, fighters will get dropped. What is important however is how the fighter reacts, and Arguello decisioned Ramirez.

If I'm going to make a case for Manny Pacquiao I'd be much quicker to mention his rise in the weight divisions, and how he just brutally stopped a legitimate 140lb who was undefeated at the weight rather than saying "ARGUELLO WAS ONCE DROPPED!"

 

...He won the fight. :huh