ATG: Who Ranks Higher, Pacquiao or Arguello?

WHAT! H2H Arguello is the better fighter. Pacquiao is one of the all time greats, but Arguello was a special fighter aswell!

Pacman's resume is highly impressive, but just look at some of the guys Arguello beat; Cornelius Boze-Edwards, Ray Mancini, Jose Luis Ramirez, Robert Vazquez, Rolando Navarrete, Bobby Chacon, Rafael Limon, Ruben Olivares. This was when fights were over 15 rounds & when guys were active, not just boxing twice a year!

Pacquiao is a legend, but so is Arguello! In terms of achievement, a case can be made for either guy, I grant you that! But Alexis would have beaten Pacquiao, IMO!

 

arguello is the best 130 fighter ever. pac had his dominance seen in how he performed in any possible weight in the lower class.

 

I think Marquez is a better fighter than Manny Pacquiao, and that is why he wins at 135lb or 140lb if they fight again.

No doubt about it? Bit to dismissive for my liking. Juan Diaz is a quality fighter who I thought was slightly ahead on the cards before the opening knockout came. His aggression and relentless combination punching would be trouble for anybody at 135lb right now, and I don't exclude Manny in that.

I don't think it was Marquez single shot power that played the factor in the stoppage. He was landing combination's throughout the entire fight, and it was on the end of a three punch combination when the opening knockdown came. Diaz was done by then.

Ricky Hatton never ever displayed the combination punching and ferocity of a Juan Diaz. Not in his entire career. Sure, Hatton was always effective at breaking his men down on the inside, but he worked in spurts, whereas Diaz is just relentless, often throwing 6-7 punch combinations. Hatton had never shown that before. I think Diaz brings more to the table than Hatton at this stage in their careers. Styles make fights. I'm not saying Diaz is a better fighter than Hatton, I'm saying Marquez would have had a lot more time to counter against Hatton than Diaz.

Fair point.

I never saw one reaction from Oscar in the entire fight that suggested to me he was buzzed from one single shot. I did however clearly see him getting stunned by a right hand counter when he fought Pretty Boy. By Oscar's own admission, a fighter who has actually fought Manny, "he doesn't hit hard".

Again, I disagree. Mayweather was shown to have hurt Oscar with the right hand counter. Oscar, being the professional he was, did his best to play down the effect of the punch but it was clear to most, even the commentators, that he was hurt by the right hand counter. This was also a physically in shape Oscar, as opposed to the one that turned up last time out. I don't know where you stand on this, by the way.

Nobody said he has stopped any natural welterweights, but the way he stunned Oscar and was the first person to knockout previously unbeaten Ricky Hatton suggested to me he has underrated power. I don't think many boxing fans picked him to knockout Ricky prior to when they actually fought, I know I didn't.

Anyhow, he wouldn't have to be capable of knocking out natural Welterweights to be able to stop Manny, who is nothing by a Super Featherweight, really.

I suspect Mayweather would land on Manny enough to get a reaction, and if he wanted to make a statement, he could sit down on his punches more and drop Manny. I would favor him to stop Manny, not only due to punching power but I think he would outclass him. This is all opinion, but you don't have to be a big puncher to knock someone out. Ask Sambu Kalamby.

I think he has better ring craft, sure.

We'll agree to disagree, but I think the last fighter Pacquiao wants to be fighting now is Mayweather, even with the lay off.

Irrelevant to my point.

Margarito was hurt once before the end came, somewhere in the middle rounds, but other than that he took those right hands very well. He was eventuallt broken down, but to say he was hurt every time Mosley landed is false, in my opinion. Not a big issue, mind.

 

Arguello, he was on the verge of becoming the first 4-division champion (if it weren't for aaron pryor) Arguello came up in an era where they were fight 15 rounds and the competition was high.

I have to give props to Arguello ... Pacquiao has never faced a fighter no where near the caliber of Aaron Pryor.

 

:huh Barrera and Morales both have far superior careers to Pryor, in terms of resume and longevity.

 

Arguello was the best boxer I have ever seen, and in my top twenty fighters of all time. Pac Man is just not there yet.

 

alexis arguello!! :thumbsup

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3238297

courtesy of longcount

 

I very much hope we find out, as I'd love a third fight between my two favourite fighters. I had Marquez winning the last one by a point, but I have a strong feeling that Pacquiao would win if they fought again. Marquez is pretty much still the same superb fighter he has been for years. Pacquiao's improved footwork has seen him take a sonic leap forward as a boxer. People don't see it because Diaz and Oscar were in no shape to compete with him and because he beat Hatton so easily, but Pacquiao will prove it whoever he fights next, Cotto, Marquez or Floyd.

Manny would devour him early. Diaz's game has always been pressure, backing people up, unloading. Stylistically, Diaz does not have a prayer against him. Manny would keep moving, keep off the ropes, and bludgeon Diaz to oblivion over the course of a few rounds.

Pedantic point based on a semantic discrepancy. Marquez's "single-shot" power means that when he was hitting Diaz, it hurt. I don't mean he single-shot KO'd him because I have eyes and know that he didn't, Diaz was in la-la land already when that final, hellacious uppercut landed. If Marquez did not have serious power with every punch, the punches he was landing wouldn't have finished Diaz and he would have won on points. It was his concussive power that was the difference in the fight. As I said though, semantic mis-step, not a very important point.

Hatton was always a better fighter than Diaz and would crush Diaz. That's why Hatton beat Tszyu, was a two-weight champion, and has been in the p4p top 10 from 2005 till the Pacquiao fight. Diaz got whipped by an ancient Nate Campbell, who went life and death with Ali Funeka in his next fight and has been KO'd by Robbie ****ing Peden - twice!!

It's standard procedure here that when someone has a bad loss everyone erases their memory over what they said and thought before said loss. No way in hell would you say Diaz was a better fighter or a tougher opponent than Hatton before the Hatton-Pac fight, because I remember what you were saying about Hatton before the Pacquiao fight.

Cool.

Oscar coasted through the fight with Floyd and was never in any sort of trouble. Yes he perhaps got slightly buzzed once, but considering it was a full-force clean shot and Oscar was past-prime (he did not look rock-solid against Steve ****ing Forbes either by the way!) and in truth Oscar never looked like going down, I don't really see that as a major source of evidence of Floyd having serious power.

I think you are being a little bit silly saying he was more buzzed/stunned there than in that 7th (or was it 8th?) round v Pac. Towards the end of the round he almost gone, one clean uppercut could've ended it but that last punch never came. Had Oscar wanted to go out on his shield, he would've been starched within the next round or two. He was hurt, no doubt about it.

However, if you don't agree, the evidence regarding Ricky Hatton is concrete. Floyd hit him with clean right hands all night, and didn't get a KD till the 10th. Pac mopped the canvas with him in the first round. Floyd fans love to bring up this appalling nonsense about how Hatton wasn't the same then, but the only difference was that Hatton was at his optimum fighting weight against Pacquiao.

Heavens above mate, you're better than a comment like that.

As already explained, I think you are greatly overstating how hurt Oscar was. He was briefly troubled by a flush power shot, but was never in any danger of going down. Had Mosley landed the same punch on an Oscar who was not impervious to the punches of Steve Forbes, Oscar would've been staring at the stars.

Oscar issue already discussed. Re Hatton: we all saw the Collazo fight, Ricky never had a strong chin, while he was "previously unbeaten" and after. It was merely decent. Collazo almost had him, but couldn't find that touch of class to end it. Mayweather, obviously, had that touch of class. It was not a task which required evil punching power, merely decent. It was the speed and manner of Pacquiao's defeat of him that suggested vicious power, and the long-game defeat of him by Mayweather which suggested comparatively less venom.

Manny has a better chin than most welterweights. He has a better chin than Judah, who took Mayweather the full road, and a better chin than Hatton, who lasted 10. Throw in that Pacquiao is now harder to hit than both of those guys too, and I just can't see a Mayweather stoppage, not at all.

You do have to be a big puncher to stop someone with an excellent chin. They also have to be stationary long enough to be able to 'sit down' on your punches and connect. Mayweather is not a big puncher and Manny will be perpetual motion for every minute of every round. It ain't happening!

You are a great poster and someone whom I respect very much and always enjoy talking to, but having seen all of Pacquiao's world title fights and all of Cotto's, that is an absolutely ludicrous comment. Pacquiao is on a completely different level to Cotto, not even close.

That says more about your true feelings on Manny that anything else. You have absolutely zero evidence to make that guess. That fight will happen, unless Floyd starts his 60% of the purse bull**** which is laughable.

Relevant to the discussion as a whole. Marquez has excellent power and didn't down Pac once in 24 rounds. Pac dropped him 4 times. Pac's power and chin are serious. As Floyd will find out.

We saw that fight differently then. I believe Margo felt he was going to walk through Mosley's punches the same way he did Cotto's, and was alarmed early on when he realized this wasn't the case. I kept thinking Margo was hurt and ready to go, but the finishing blow never quite came before the rounds ended. The fight was a slow death, it was apparent that Mosley was hurting Margo, had the power to KO him, and the result was never in doubt after the fight had begun. It was just a matter of when that one big shot would land that would tip Margo over the edge, and it came near the end of the penultimate round. It had been coming for a long time though by then. Not worth arguing over, but for me Margo was shocked and in pain from early doors.

 

Morales was old and Barrera had become much more technical. "Caliber" wasn't a very specific word, but Pryor would confront Manny with a kind of speed, pressure, physicality, and overall nastiness that none of the Mexican Triumvirate brought to the table.

 

Pryor was a natural lightwelter, whereas the Mexican Triumverate were naturals at 122-126lbs. I think Pryor would beat Pac too, as Pac is not a natural at 140. However, I agree with SK that Barrera, Morales and Marquez had greater careers.

 

We have nothing to argue about then.

Although, I've got time tonight. Should we quote each other's sentences and discuss the grammar?

 

First of all Arguello would destroy Pac.

Secondly his resume shits all over Pacs.

Asero, did you post this on the General because you knew you would get laughed out of the classic :deal

 

those who voted Pac should log out

 

So true :good That Arguello would've knocked Tszyu clean.