ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Roy Jones Jr or Evander Holyfield?

ILikeBoxingForRealz · May 27, 2020

Evander is the answer. All time cruiserweight, wiped out the division. World Heavyweight champion of the world. Had some hellacious fights in his prime/heavyweight run

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Rico Spadafora said: ↑

Is this even serious? Evander and it isn’t even close
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It's the other way around.

P4P, judging based on prime alone, Roy is top 3 all time. Holyfield is a joke compared to Roy.
In his prime, Roy was head and shoulders above any other boxer in the world p4p, Evander wasn't even the best HW.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Luis Fernando said: ↑

I mean, how is this even debatable? What did Evander Holyfield do that was so special and ground-breaking, that others couldn't do and what made people be in so much awe from watching Holyfield?

Chin? Oliver Mccall and Mariusz Wach have significantly better chins and durability.

Defense? James Toney and Chris Byrd have much superior defenses.

Heart? Alexander Povetkin has just as good of a heart, if not better than Holyfield.

Speed? David Haye, Mike Tyson, Oleksandr Usyk and James Toney are / were all faster.

Inside-fighting? James Toney craps on Holyfield as he owned him on the inside. Same with Chris Byrd.

Outside-fighting? Both Klitschko bros and Lennox Lewis are far superior to Holyfield in this department.

I mean, I can't see anything positively special about Holyfield that made him stand-out above everyone else, like Roy Jones Jr was. If anybody could pinpoint that something which made Holyfield stand-out or made him special compared to the rest, please enlighten me. Otherwise, the only thing that (negatively) stood out about Holyfield, was the fact that he was arguably the biggest and greatest drug cheat in the history of the sport of boxing, effectively also making him one of the biggest frauds of all time too.

Whereas in Roy Jones Jr, we have a guy who absolutely is the benchmark for athleticism, speed and explosiveness. He redefined the limits of human athleticism in boxing. In his prime, he was the greatest athlete ever seen in the sport of boxing and he may still be the most athletic boxer in history to this day, barring only a few boxers who rival him.

Whilst in Holyfild, we have a guy who has all been surpassed or equalled by a ton of guys in every department that he was supposedly 'special' or 'renowned' for.

So for me, this is a no-brainer! Roy Jones Jr not only ranks higher, but does so by a healthy and a handsome margin. The guy who has set the bar for other proceeding boxers in any department, and has shown unprecedented attributes, logically and objectively ranks higher than a guy who hasn't done any of those things. Thus, Roy Jones jr > Evander Holyfield objectively!
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BRILLIANT POST.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Jones is possibly a 'modern great' so to speak for his fights and wins against Castro and Toney, and avenging defeat against a fighter for the revered WBC green belt (although it was initially a vacant title!) and scoring a body shot knockout against a top ten contender

That's at a massive push. He didn't rematch Toney or unify any division he hopped about in, then was knocked out cold many times?

Modern times he was really cool, basketball and roosters, cool stuff. But would he survive fighting every two weeks against Langford, Burley, LaMotta, Moore, Robinson, Armstrong, Charles and dozens and dozens of others near that class, who are Montell Griffin x10 with tactical nouse, parries and shoulder rolls and not on an IV drip before the fight
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In his prime, he beats all of them. He may not be as skilled, but there hasn't been a more athletic boxer in the sport's history.
Roy was a freak of nature, unbeatable in his prime.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Think what fighting marine Gene Tunney would do to him! Or Bennie Briscoe on a same-day weigh-in at the bitterly hostile Horizon, he was a 90s Hopkins x5
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He beats both on the same night. Tunney won't be even be able to land a single punch on Roy.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Serge said: ↑

How many brutal KO losses do you think prime Roid would've been on the receiving end of and how much sooner do you think that fragile mandible of his would've been exposed had he had to run the gauntlet of savage punching KO artists Evan did during his prime?

Tyson x 2
Lewis x 2
Foreman
Bowe x 3
Mercer
Rahman
Moorer

Now go compare those names to all the soft hitting sanitation workers, professional dog walkers, milkmen, and drag queens that make up the bulk of the opposition on a prime Roid's CV. He wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what he did if he had to run that kind of gauntlet because as soon as that glass got shattered the mystique did too and once that's gone he would've actually been facing opponents who weren't beaten before they stepped foot in the ring.
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Are you stupid ?!?
Roy was not a HW, so how can you compare him with those boxers ?!?????

Serge · May 27, 2020

Johnny_B said: ↑

Are you stupid ?!?
Roy was not a HW, so how can you compare him with those boxers ?!?????
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I'm talking punchers equivalent to or at least close to those guys at the respective weight classes he campaigned in, not those actual savage punching HWs. Even I wouldn't like to envisage the utter devastation a full-blooded shot from Tyson, Lewis, Foreman etc. would inflict upon that chin of his lol

Bulldog24 · May 27, 2020

Johnny_B said: ↑

In his prime, he beats all of them. He may not be as skilled, but there hasn't been a more athletic boxer in the sport's history.
Roy was a freak of nature, unbeatable in his prime.
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Nonsense. Tunney, Conn, Moore, Charles, Foster and Spinks all better a 95 RJJ in the ring together at 170-180ish

Bulldog24 · May 27, 2020

Johnny_B said: ↑

He beats both on the same night. Tunney won't be even be able to land a single punch on Roy.
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Hahahahahahahaaah

Loudon · May 27, 2020

alangjk said: ↑

Holyfield by a few thousand country miles.
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No.

Stiff Jab · May 27, 2020

I had to do a double-take because I saw someone accuse Holyfield of being 'the biggest drug cheat in boxing' in the same post they praised Roid Jones Jr's natural athleticism and I just can't. I need a drink.

Loudon · May 27, 2020

TISONLYONEKING said: ↑

I'm not surprised Roy got votes but some of the comments baffle me. It's Evander... and yes, easily. Strength of schedule has to carry quite a bit of value over flash, even in a loss.

One thing I've never quite understood about some fans in regards to Roy and measuring him against his peers in the sport, is placing him above a guy like Evander based on fighting inferior opposition. No one ever refutes his abilities but he fought a lot of guys who didn't belong in a ring with him, i.e. Glen Kelly for example.

Stacking up wins against opposition like that, even whilst doing it with great athletic ability, shouldn't put you above certain guys who have wins and/or losses against higher caliber opponents in terms of ATGreatness or P4P.
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Everybody fights inferior guys and Roy had obligations from all 3 of the main org’s when he was fighting guys like Kelly.

Their resumes are actually pretty close when you put them under the microscope.

Roy had a very good resume:

Castro
Hopkins
Malinga
Toney
McCallum
Griffin
Hill
Reggie
Ruiz
Tarver

It’s up there with Evander’s.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Nonsense. Tunney, Conn, Moore, Charles, Foster and Spinks all better a 95 RJJ in the ring together at 170-180ish
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Roy is so far in front of them he can't even see them if he looks behind.

Bulldog24 · May 27, 2020

Johnny_B said: ↑

Roy is so far in front of them he can't even see them if he looks behind.
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Seek help.

Johnny_B · May 27, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Seek help.
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You didn't even know what an ATG was until you entered this thread. Stop embarrassing yourself further.

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ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Roy Jones Jr or Evander Holyfield?

Who Ranks Higher in your ATG list

Evander Holyfield

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ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Roy Jones Jr or Evander Holyfield?

Who Ranks Higher in your ATG list

Evander Holyfield

Roy Jones Jr

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