ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Tommy Hearns or Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by asero, Jun 24, 2020.


ATG: Who Ranks Higher?

This poll will close on Nov 9, 2047 at 5:32 AM.
  1. Tommy "Hitman" Hearns

    48 vote(s)
    58.5%
  2. Floyd "Money" Mayweather Jr

    34 vote(s)
    41.5%
  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    What Floyd did is of course his fault. But almost every resume and career has a bit of an asterisk. We can compare how big the asterisks are but imo the size differential isn't significant.

    What is significant is comparing what they've actually done, not what they haven't done.
     
  2. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Also was the first fight between Hearns and Leonard already an unification (WBC & WBA) of the only existing world boxing bodies when (apart of WAA). So they had really two unification bouts, not one, in Welterweight and a decade later in Super-Middleweight.
     
  3. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With Floyd it is hard to rank him. The way he made his career work and not fighting Manny earlier hurt him, and he could have made it happen in 2010. Manny fought everyone and he would have fought Floyd earlier. I get arguments here that Manny is the one who turned it down, but Floyd was playing games with testing and things like that. Floyd didn't want it. You knew Manny did. Manny's career is complete with fighting the best all the time. Floyd's was not. So I have to go with it being Floyd's fault that fight didn't happen earlier. Everything points to Floyd no matter what his fans say about Manny turning it down.
     
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I tend to blame the champion if no offer is made or the challenger if an offer has been made, but in this case they were basically 1a and 1b so ultimately I blame them both. I don't care that much as I tend to look at what they did do.

    For my money Pacquiao is on a different level of greatness to these two.
     
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  5. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree also. Manny fought everyone and would fight everyone. This is a case where the guy who lost is much greater.
     
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  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    There are plenty of good fighters missing from Manny's resume who he should have faced but didn't. I can't imagine where people are getting this idea that he fought everbody.

    He may have been willing to fight anyone but for whatever reason many big fights failed to materialize.
     
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Reason: Bob Arum
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    They both have huge egos. Nobody wanted to back down. But personally, I don’t see why Floyd couldn’t have pushed for the fight when Manny went back and had agreed to the 14 days that Floyd had previously offered him. Manny had publicly conceded at that point, so it would have been a psychological win for Floyd. But like a child, he said that the offer was no longer on the table. Now you don’t behave like that when that was supposedly the one major obstacle which was blocking a $400m mega fight.

    The final straw for me, was in 2012, when Manny publicly agreed to all testing. Not the 14 day cut off what Floyd had previously offered, but random OSDT all the way up to the day of the fight, which Floyd had requested right from the outset. Manny publicly offered that. Yet Leonard Ellerbe didn’t even make any enquiries about it. He didn’t even try to set up any negotiations. This was 3 years after Floyd had continuously said that it was the testing which was preventing the fight from taking place.

    It was at that point that I knew that it was never the testing that had prevented an earlier fight.

    It was Floyd who wasn’t fully confident.

    Personally, I think that Floyd would have beaten any version of Manny with his great speed and his huge reach. But as we’ve seen throughout the years, as great as Floyd was, he had a mental weakness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Then clearly took PEDS himself.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    It’s okay though. Because he wasn’t really guilty. Bob Bennett said so. Ha!
     
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  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Exactly.

    This is what we’re dealing with here.

    Apparently, Manny was guilty of taking PEDS, despite the fact that there was zero evidence of any wrongdoing. Yet when Floyd was caught with an illegal IV and a BS, illogical excuse, everything was fine.

    They’ll also gladly tell you that Floyd had an injured shoulder against Castillo. They’ll even upload a link to where it was mentioned in an article from years ago. Yet if you post an actual quote from the surgeon who operated on Manny’s shoulder, they’ll shoot it down and label it as all being complete BS.
     
  11. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    Agreed, he was looking for a mental advantage in dictating terms because I do not think he wanted to deal with that Manny work rate and firepower at the time ... Neck will defend him to the end , but you are sort of he way with RJJ , although its different ... which is fine .. May and RJJ are so much a like that they both had the opportunity to test themselves more but didnt .. We have discussed it before ,, If they did and both were very successful then they are in locked in on any top 20 p4p list ... It is the only reason they are both outside of it
     
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  12. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don't forget too, that Mayweather was granted a 'retroactive' TUE, which made it all better :lol:
     
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  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He wanted a cut off due to the Morales incident.

    Whether you agree with that or not, the Morales incident was documented 4 years before any negotiations, in a landscape where testing of that nature wasn’t prevalent.

    You guys always imply that Manny simply refused testing, which was incredibly suspicious, which raised huge red flags. But you never apply context.

    Manny never refused a drug test. He never once refused to be tested. He just didn’t want OSDT up to the day of the fight. And yes, by today’s standards, it looks odd. But again, not when you apply context and allow for the fact that the sport was very different back then and that he had a valid reason for his request. Also, he was willing to do an immediate after fight blood and urine test.

    You also never acknowledge the fact that Manny agreed to Floyd’s cut off demand, before then agreeing to ALL of Floyd’s testing demands. Yet even when he did that, the fight still took a further 3 years to happen.

    Out of 5 years of back and forth negotiations, you only ever focus on the first 12 months to suit your agenda.

    Of all the information that we have available, the only thing which is clear, is that it was Floyd who was guilty of taking PEDS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Mayweather retroactively hurt your feelings. That’s for sure.
     
  15. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    LOL - What is it with you and retorting with a reference to "feelings"?

    Oh... ...that's right... ...because you can't think of Mayweather in any other terms - just that, in your case, it's more like undying love.