ATG: Why would you Rank Floyd above Pacquaio and Vice Versa?

Pac has the prime ATG win over Marquez at 130 and has had more "underdog" wins over his contemporaries (Barrera, Lehlo).

To me, that means a lot in a legacy.

It's Pac for me (for now).

 

Floyd. More diverse competition and no "*" in the win column

 

Pacquiao has the better resume.

Floyd has the distinction of being an arguable H2H GOAT in a division (130) and in general would probably fare better than Manny H2H.

If you rate on resume, Pacquiao. If you rate on H2H capability, Floyd. Pacquiao will have the better legacy among the fans and general public in the future though because he's an overachiever while Floyd is a career underachiever. He's accomplished a great deal, but we all know it could have and probably should have been a lot more, had he actually cared about legacy anyway.

I rank guys based on both theoretical H2H ability and resume (the latter being more important than the former), so I rank Manny slightly ahead of Floyd, but it's very close.

 

Pac.

MAB, EM, JMM>Corrales, Castillo, Hernandez

 

Pacquiao. Unless Floyd beats Sergio and Alvarez before he retires

 

Pac easy in this for the simple fact he beat the better peers then Floyd did.

 

Pac. by a long mile.

Do we still need to discuss this? It's pretty obvious.

 

Mayweather on virtue of having the better resume. Him being by far the greatest fighter to reach an undefeated mark in their career, manner of the victories, the fact that he has never lost and only been challenged a small handful of times in fights, along with the elite names on his resume which are comparable to Pac's, is the quick answer to why I rank Mayweather as high as I do. Pacquiao has the epic unheard of weight jumping success, particular success at 122 and 140-7, and nearly ten fights against the legendary Mexican trio of HOF'ers is why I rank him where I do.

Both top 20 ever.

 

Whats your top 20?

 

I like the way this is said. The diversity of competition for Floyd is noteworthy and it is without question in my opinion more diverse than Pac's.

Pac has 2 for Marquez, but also a big W* over Bradley. Mayweather/Castillo too is reasonable to score a D or for Castillo.

His ATG 130 run is huge for his resume. Not only a H2H GOAT, but an arguable straight up GOAT at 130.

I will agree with the second quoted statement.

Yes, true. But...

I will say that all 4 of Mayweather's wins over Corrales, Castillo, and Genaro are all 4 better wins than Pac over Barrera II, Morales II, and Morales III. Plus, I would lower a fighters' greatness upon prime or near prime "consensus losses" like Pac's to JMM in II and III, and might argue that Pac losing to Morales in combination with JMM super close fights, lowers his clear dominance in the quad-rivalry. Barrera I is clearly the best win on either fighters' resume. No argument there. But considering the quoted comparison of three fighters as to how they apply to the resumes, advantage Mayweather...?

I'd love to hear an argument to the contrary.

No. It is not by a long mile. It is not obvious. If you think it is either of these, I would highly question your opinion on the matter.

 

It obviously fluctuates. No order:

Robinson
Armstrong
Louis
Pep
Saddler
Ali
Ezzard
Moore
Duran
Monzon
R. Leonard
Fitzsimmons
Greb
Hagler
J. Johnson
Langford
Whitaker
Tunney

Mayweather
Pacquiao

They completely belong. I chuckle at people who somehow don't think the two best fighters of the past 20 years warrant placement among all time peers from a sport that has only 120 years of participants to choose from.

 

They are closer to each other than some suggest.

 

Plain and simple, Pac's career best opponents are greater fighters than May's career best opponents.

Pac lost a close but clear fight to EM. Came back and finished him in the rematch. I don't put much stock into Pac-EM 3. EM was past it but still legit in the 2nd fight. 3rd time around he was shot, so Pac don't get much props for it.

And I don't buy the 'JMM was robbed' **** either. Pac won the 1st fight goin away. If anyone was robbed the 1st time, it was Pac. JMM and Pac went 6-6 in the 2nd fight. Pac's KD won him the fight. If you wanna give JMM a 10-8 for rd 8 in that fight, that makes it a draw. But he ain't win.

I'm talkin prime fights here, so won't go into Pac-JMM 3. I thought that was anotha iffy fight for both guys.

As for Pac-MAB 2, only problem was MAB ain't press hard enuf. That ain't Pac's fault.

On May's side of this, Chico was just an ass kickin. But Chico ain't an ATG or even a great fighter.

I think he lost to JLC the 1st time. Closely, but clearly. He beat him closely but clearly in the rematch.

Hernandez, like EM for Pac, was older but still on top in the division and May beat him solid.

It just comes down to Pac beatin guys who are greater.

 

I agree to extents with all the points you make, for sure. All valid. But like all difference of opinion with boxing, the ratio of what we value or the extent of what we see is different.

Don't want to break it all down, but among some things particularly Mayweathers fights:
-Genaro even as old as he was is a top all time at 130 and was undefeated there puts Mayweather "up" more stock in the direct comparison than Pac's 3 total fights with Morales. Morales won clear when he was the underdog. Lost to Zahir, came back down for his last fights at 130 and right before his first retirement, II is without question a great win, but III especially then isn't even a very good win.
-The 'ass beating' over Corrales is the most or second most decisive victory amongst the 12-13 total fights in question (Morales III). That's a good thing. It is probably the second best win in question (Barrera I). Call it irrelevant, Corrales entered Ring P4P #5, and widely considered one of the best in the world.
-JLC was probably the best LW of the decade. Those fights are underrated. Yes, the first could easily be scored a variety of ways and no robbery, although the scores were clearly too wide. A SD win by either or a Draw would be most fair.
-Sorry, but when 80% of fans think that a fighter clearly wins, as is the case in JMM over Pac in their third, the fight deserves a *-type mention. Castillo/Mayweather I is far closer to 50/50 than Pac/JMM III.