Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Olu G. Rotimi, Jun 7, 2022.
Better than Tiger?
Yes Gorman knew his stuff but really my hero the great Don Curry did not need to fight again at 147 after unifying and should have moved up. He waited and faced a nuclear welterweight in my guy Lloyd the raggamuffin man Honeyghan.
I agree Barry should not be in the hall of fame especially when better fighters than him who achieved more are not in the hall of fame. Apparently a relative of his called McGuigan a new poster when I questioned him claimed Barry’s team made offers to fight Nelson and Nelson turned it down which a blatant lie. Nelson desperately wanted to destroy McGuigan. It’s even on tape McGuigan’s manager Barney Eastwood turning it down saying Barry did not need Azumah Nelson and apparently in his boom admitting Azumah Nelson would have killed Barry.
I am sure you would.
McDonell was stopped by Azumah Nelson being put on the deck 3 times whereas I remember McDonell stopping McGuigan. Now you claim McDonell when he beat McGuigan was a spent force which is another excuse. Against Steve Cruz it was the heat etc neglecting that Cruz was actually a good boxer with a great team (Dave Gorman) and stellar amateur record, circa 300 bouts I believe. Yes McGuigan was good maybe very good but far from great. Great fighters step up to the plate. Had McGuigan fought Nelson it would have enhanced his legacy even though he would have lost and made a lot more money. He just lacked the desire to push the needle.
Yes even better than my country man the great Dick Tiger May his soul rest in perfect peace.
I think when it comes to Africa's greatest you can say Dick Tiger, Azumah Nelson and Brian Mitchell, but I slightly prefer Nelson.
Dick Tiger and Brian Mitchell are great fighters but I think even they would agree that Nelson is number 1.
I already mentioned Steve Cruz's Amateur career in a previous post that he was an outstanding Amateur with multiple golden gloves under his belt.
I never said Cruz wasn't a good fighter but of course the heat and climate made a difference, one is from Ireland where it's cold and cloudy for most of the year. The other is from from Texas so of course Cruz is alot more capable of dealing with extreme heat of 110 degrees. I don't think the UK or Ireland has ever had 110 degree heat weather TBH.
Again I already said its McGuigan and his team's fault for not preparing for the heat and climate properly, but I do think McGuigan would've won under normal conditions yes, McGuigan was ahead after 14 rounds despite not being prepared for the heat.
As I said no excuses Cruz won the fight fairly and good on him, but I do think McGuigan would've won under normal conditions I don't think that's an outlandish opinion.
As for McDonnell yes he was dropped 3 times vs Nelson but he gave him a very a tough fight in a brave effort from McDonnell. McGuigan retired for 2 years after Cruz fight and was never the same fighter I don't think that's an outlandish opinion either.
I don’t think the Cruz fight was particularly tough. It was tough for McDonnell not Nelson who put his lights out. McDonnell did his best and fought with great courage but it was not that tough at all. What I take issue with is the insinuation that McDonnell gave Nelson a tough fight so Barry McGuigan would have given Nelson a tough fight. First it was not a tough fight and McDonell got bashed up. He was put down heavily in round 5 bravely got up to fight on and taken out in the 12th round. McDonell in an interview with boxing monthly having fought both Nelson and McGuigan said a fight between them would be one way traffic and it was an open secret in boxing circles that McGuigan and his team did not want it.
That's not what I said at all and I never suggested that either, when did i say McGuigan would give Nelson a tough fight based on McDonnell fight ? They're two completely different fighters. McDonnell was more of a classic boxer type and McGuigan was an aggressive come forward fighter.
I do think a prime McGuigan would give Nelson a good fight before being stopped sometime in 2nd half of the fight, but certainly not based on McDonnell fight which has no revelance to McGuigan as their styles are not remotely the same.
Finally what do you class as a tough fight ? McGuigan was on a stretcher after a grueling 15 round battle in 110 degree heat, in which he was floored 3 times and suffering from dehydration. It was so tough it took McGuigan 2 years until he thought he was mentally and physically ready to fight again.
Finally to go over McDonnell/Nelson fight once again yes it was a tough fight, and McDonnell won his fair share of rounds and pushed Nelson. I don't think Nelson was ever in danger of losing and he certainly looked a class above McDonnell, but it was still a tough fight and very brave effort from McDonnell until he had nothing left in 11th round.
The difference between us is I don’t think a Nelson vs McGuigan fight goes past 4 rounds unless Azumah Nelson is purposely prolonging it to ensure McGuigan takes a prolonged beating which he could very well do.
As for the Nelson vs McDonell to me yes Nelson was a class above or several classes above and it showed. Yes McDonell was brave and nothing new in that as boxers generally tend to be brave souls. Nelson inflicted such a beating on McDonell he was never the same again. The great Brian Mitchell did not put anywhere near the same beat down on Jimmy Mac. Otherwise we are agreed Sir.
Honeyghan got lucky Both Dave Gorman & Paul Reyes, his trainer, wanted to pull Don out he'd had the flu , hadn't been able to train, was overweight because of this. It was the man I believe helped ruin Don's career Akhbar Muhammad that insisted Don fought. He had to endure the sweatbox to make weight. He was weak as a kitten. Credit to Lloyd he took advantage of a not 100% opponent. BUT He obviously knew this when he point blank refused to rematch Don.
Don wanted to move up & fight Hagler but as we all know Saccharin Ray Leonard, I refuse to call him Sugar Ray, only one Sugar Ray Mr Robinson, stabbed Don in the back & negociated the Hagler fight for himself.
Robbed Marvelous Marvin too in my book. Leonard was not one of Texas favorite sons by far over that
I am no fan of that SOB Sugar Ray Leonard but he was a mean SOB in the ring even more than Terence Bud Crawford.
He was a snake in the grass, supposedly working for Don as an advisor & hired by Muhammad. Supposedly forced to retire with a detached retina. He kept telling Don to wait while he was angling for the fight for himself.
First we heard of it in Ft Worth was on the News " Leonard is coming back & will face Marvin Hagler"
Leonard beat a hasty retreat from Texas as you can guess like a scalded rat.. I think he was probably wise to do that too