B. Leonard or Willie Pep?

I saw Willie Pep in his prime,1943...But Benny Leonard a lightweight of course, was a great great classical boxer, who hit MUCH harder than Pep did.. Nat Fleischer who saw them both at their peaks would no doubt pick Benny Leonard as the greater all around fighter, as do I...Leonard had one punch precision knockout power with either hand...

 

Leonard clearly IMO. He has a much deeper resume and was more successful outside his natural weight class; and he was probably the more talented/well-rounded of the two to boot. Leonard can very justifiably be rated among the all time 10 best fighters P4P IMO, whereas I don't see the same case being made for Pep.

 

Willie Pep had better defense than Benny Leonard. That's saying a lot Leonard had great defense himself.
In terms of overall boxing skills/ability/talent Leonard was better than Pep.

 

...Delete

 

Benny Leonard was way ahead of his time.

 

Ummmm...No

That is YOUR opinion.

:shock: Strongly Disagree. Pep may have been the best pure boxer we have ever seen. Pep was magic.

:shock::shock: Not only is Willie Pep clearly a top 10 p4p fighter of all time, I rate Willie Pep # 2 on my p4p list of all time.

 

Nope.

 

SuzieQ49...nice post.

 

Leonard boxed a lot like gene tunney. Fast straight punches, quick long jabs, lots of movement on the feet. Nice Angles. A Master Master Boxer. I think Pep was a slightly better boxer. Pep's footwork may not have been as fast as benny's but it was better. It had more rythm to it, it was more unpredictable, it was more natural, it was more fluid. Pep flowed like an ice skater skates. He was magic on his feet. I have never seen a fighter take angles the way Pep utilized them. He was the best at them. Pep's jab was a machine. He could throw it 6-7 times in a row in succession without losing any snap. His combinations are groselly underrated. Pep flew fast accurate crisp 5-6 punch combination in bunches like it was nothing. He knew how to score offensively even if he was not putting the other guy in danger. Benny Leonard was great. He did everything by the book. He was the master of the book. Difference with me is, Pep did everything by the book too, plus more. Pep invented things, things came natural to him.


Pep's resume is underrated. No he did not defeat as many hall of famers as Benny Leonard did, but the best ones Pep beat were as good as any Leonard beat. Pep also cleaned out an ENTIRE decade worth of top rated featherweight contenders in a tough era at 126lb. Leonard did the same in his weight class. Pep did well when he moved up in weight, defeating a lightweight champion and two other very good lightweight contenders in a historical sense. Leonard did well too, but I do not think he surpassed Pep in that regard. I give Leonard the edge in resume because of the number of hall of famers he beat, but I think people underrate pep's resume. Most people don't care to study the 1940s featherweight division because to them, it's "boring". Nat Fleischer must have been on crack when he talked about Willie Pep.

I think Willie Pep is the greatest featherweight of all time. The same cannot be said for Benny in his weight class(duran, gans, Williams all have strong arguements). Both great fighters, I cannot imagine one clearly rated above the other.

Pep rates # 2 on my all time list, Leonard is in my top 10 also.

 

Very even, there is not much between them imo.

 

Pep was the better boxer, not by much though, I agree but Leonard IMO was more complete. He could not only box but also punch. Pep was good offensivly but his focus was on defense. Leonard was more balanced when it comes to offense and defense I think. It´s very much splitting hairs. I think Leonard would beat Pep if Pep at his best would dare to challenge Leonard at his best.

Hm, to me this sounds as if you would make an argument for Leonard, not Pep. Their pathes are very similar. Quality is even but Leonard had more depth on his quality than Pep.

Yep, but the lightweight division has overall more depth in it which evens it out that Leonard has peers there while Pep does not - IMO.

I thought he was one? Did you change your opinion? Who edges Pep now?


I might change my opinion from very even to slight edge for B. Leonard now. Interesting I always had Pep higher. :think