What are the best examples of boxers and boxing historians claiming that the fighters of yesteryear were all much better than the hapless novices fighting later on? Fleischer and Tunney are notorious for this. Who else?
Nat Loubet was bad too- an improvement on Fleisher, but still bad. Fleischer was his father-in-law. I always found it strange reading those old Ring mags, say one from 1969 and it's full of old timers saying "ohh it's crap now compared to then"....."Robinson beat Ketchel- no way!!!" I mean, they're trying to sell a mag and they went out of their way to tell everyone who useless modern fighters were . Fleisher would have pieces like "Clay an all-time Top 10- Definitely NO!!" (and that was in the early 70s). The best of the old timers was possibly Dan Daniel, he didn't give it the old "I was there and you weren't, so that's that" angle.
Elbows McFadden was my favourite. He did fight some murderer's row, but he was in absolute despair about these kids, don't know they are born. In fairness, 1940s boxing must have seemed pretty soft to those post-pioneers. They needed some pretty serious tonnage to kill McFadden even in his mid-seventies.
Down many a pub and bar across the world, there'll be a conversation right now that goes: Q: "What do you think of Haney and Lomachenko, great great grandpa?" A: "Neither of those bums are fit to carry Banana Sam's jockstrap"
You spelled the first name of Loubet incorrectly. The late, great Malcom "FLASH" Gordon correctly identified him as GNAT Loubet... By his reckoning, Fleischer's recorded voice said prior to the staged 1969 Marciano vs Ali super fight that "Muhammad Ali (NOT Cassius Clay as I recall) has still not proven to me that he's a great fighter, although in my opinion he is the fastest HW of all time." Two things should be noted about Fleischer here however. One, he didn't live to change his tune after Foreman and Manila. Two, he did NOT withdraw recognition of Ali as World Champion until after the FOTC. EVERYBODY Fleischer inducted into his Ring HOF is also now in Canastota, something NOT true for the three Loubet inducted after Fleischer's death. For me, the much more interesting and challenging question concerns which old timers did rate newer arrivals as superior. Sam Langford and Mickey Walker highly praised Joe Louis, Walker writing in his autobiography that, "Even at my very best, I knew I couldn't have licked him." Mickey lived long enough to have seen Ali after Leon II. Whether he said anything or was even able to say anything about Ali is another question however. JJW said on camera after Manila that Ali was indeed the GOAT, something Louis vehemently disagreed with on the same program. Gentleman Jim Corbett gushed that Tommy Loughran perfected himself and what he aspired to during his late 1800's heyday. Archie Moore's thoughts ought to have been interesting, as would have been Willie Pep's, and Willie was certainly asked about that by fans who Pep enjoyed guiding around the IBHOF. (Ditto Basilio I imagine.) Ray Arcel stated in no uncertain terms that Locche was the greatest defensive fighter he ever saw, and Arcel was in Duran's corner for Benitez. This very old timer loved Duran so much he even returned after the New Orleans debacle. Eddie Futch and Arcel worked together for Larry Holmes against Cooney. (Futch taught Larry to stop telegraphing his right by not lifting his leg beforehand to tip off that punch.) What other such rarish exceptions are there? Addition by subtraction in a sense.
Bob Fitzsimmons, who was idolized by Joe Gans, called Gans "The wonder of the age!" Goldfield shows how great Gans was on film. He decked Nelson with a single hook and a single cross. I don't think people realize who they're seeing the Old Master doing this to. Frank Erne nearly blinded Gans with Erne's devastating jab. (I have numerous yellowed contemporary newspaper accounts of this match.) For the rematch, Gans figured out how to counter that jab and wiped Erne out. Joe was very highly admired by many of his ATG white predecessors.
I know Eddie Futch said before Tyson-Spinks that Tyson had the fastest hands of any heavyweight he’d seen since Joe Louis. He didn’t say who was faster between Tyson and Louis iirc. But that group would include Ali and Floyd Patterson. I hold Futch’s assessments in very high esteem.
Flash Gordon highly praised Sugar's integrity when he was editor and publisher of Ring Magazine, but at Canastota, BRS told us he really considered himself a story teller. Great character, always with that fedora and cigar. His presentation of Jerry Quarry on YouTube is a terrific example of his story telling about somebody who many very wrongly believed he thought little of.
Okay, where is @Boxed Ears and what did you do with him (or to him?)... "Banana Sam???" Could you cite a more blatant ripoff of Boston Tom McMoustache?
I vividly remember that A.J Liebling met an old timer named Billy Ray, who invited a group of people to his 90th birthday party, the invitation card said '' Last surviving bare knuckle fighter''. He asked Ray about the amount of fights he had, and he answered '' A hundred forty, the last one was with gloves, I thought the game was getting soft, so I retired.'' Mad stuff.
According to Kevin Iole, Eddie Futch also said that Floyd Mayweather Jr. was doing moves that he hadn't seen anyone do in 50 years. Schulberg also praised FMJ in some of his articles, too. I think Budd was a bit more open minded than say, Jimmy Cannon was when discussing Ali.
