Barker - Pirog ?

Not quite sure what you are trying to point out. In one sentance you are saying he should have let more punches go and then the next your'e saying it would have meant Barker would not have been punching with Martinez. I think Barker's biggest problem is maintaining a steady pace for a full 12 rounds, his workrate was fine against Martinez as it stopped Sergio from engaging with his flashy combinations and snappy counters, when Barker did begin to open up he started getting ripped to the body and eventually got broken down, opening up early would have just helped Martinez finish the job quicker.

 

Pirog TKO10 Barker

I think the early rounds will be nip and tuck with Barker landing his jab with suprising ease but Pirog replying every so often with flashy combos that force Barker back, i think much will depend on how people like to score a fight early on. towards the 6th or 7th i think Pirog would begin to pull away as Barker begin to tire from the heavy punches he has been forced to absorb, this will eventually lead to Pirog TKOing an exhausted Barker around the 10th or 11th after what initialy looked like a close fight.

Its hard to pick Barker in these matchups whilst im so unsure how decent his engine is, it wasnt to good to see the way he faded against Barker having looked so good previously. Barker would be very difficult to beat if all fights were 6 rounders but unfortunately they are not.

 

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- Thats why i said title defense and Williams beating Kolle doesnt make him a MW nor was Dzinziruk. He's fought 2 MW's, Barker and Pavlik, and both showed how limited Sergio is and his inability to make adjustments. If Pavlik wasn't a raging alcoholic with menstruation inflicted vaginas bleeding profusely from each eye he would have won, hell just without the cuts he still would have won even as a alcoholic.

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- No i'm not. Its virtually the exact same thing that happened to Pirog vs Maciel another high guard Argentinian who came to just survive, only difference is Pirog injured his neck before the fight and almost cancelled the bout. Non objective haters who were looking to write Pirog off and failed to use objective context did just that.

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- That is a view that i'm aware other people including yourself hold but i'm sure as hell not one of them, so yes, i deny that claim.

They may be "poven" against eachother but anyone who has watched all these guys fight that thinks there is more elite world level talent at JMW than MW can't detect skill and dont know what they're watching

Kirkland
Angulo

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Bundrage
Williams
Martirosyan

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Molina
Rodriguez

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vs

Martinez
Pirog
Golovkin
Proksa
N'jikam
Sturm
Geale
Khurtsidze
Macklin
Lee
Quillin
Chavez
Barker
Murray
Zbik
Rubio
Jacobs
Bursak

The 4 JMW's in yellow are the only guys i feel are true elite well rounded fighters or have the potential to be while over half of the MW's i listed are exactly that. The top JMW's like Angulo, Kirkland, Martirosyan, Williams, Bundrage, Molina are limited.

The way Martinez, Dibella, and HBO have operated during Sergio's MW "Reign" is an absolute disgrace. There is a ****ing pantheon of very exciting, talented, world class MW's that Martinez could make title defenses and prove his status against and he's defended against...Barker.

Although Macklin isn't very versatile if he can handle Martinez's power and his high guard is as effective as Barker's than due to his better aggression, workrate, and power i give him a legit chance at beating Sergio.

 

Macklin doesn't have a chance really.

 

Martinez had an injured hamstring and left elbow versus Barker, or do injury excuses only count for Pirog?

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Absolutely no one could have reasonably objected to the Wiliams defense at the time, despite this post-hoc nonsense about Martinez only picking on "smaller" guys. Please also feel free to name at least one non-Pirog opponent from this pantheon who would have been preferable and available over any of Martinez's past two defenses.

 

I never read anyone say Martinez was injured until you right now...

Im sure Pirog, Golovkin, Geale, Khurtsidze, Lee would have been available and willing to take a Martinez fight during that time.

 

Hauser mentiones the leg injury here: [url]http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/13380-martinez-barker-a-night-at-the-office-gets-complicatedhauser[/url]

Gabriel Montoya mentions the elbow injury here: [url]http://www.insidehboboxing.com/inside/2011/10/10/sergio-martinez-predicts-bernard-hopkins-victory-over-chad-d.html[/url]

Rafael says he knew Martinez wasn't close to 100% here: [url]http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/40534/boxing-with-dan-rafael[/url]

Geale turned down the date for the Barker fight and Golovkin has not been able to fight in the US at any point that Martinez has defended.

 

thanks for the sources. Didn't know Geale turned it down and thats a good point about Golovkin although he has fought in South America a few times, wouldn't have been impossible for that one. Spain or Argentina could have been a venue.

 

Williams' shut out of Winky confirmed his middleweight credentials.

 

Who has Golovkin actually beaten?

Unless there's loads of names missing from his Boxrec page it just seems that he's fought an assortment of bus drivers, estate agents and teachers.

If Allegedly had lined up such opponents for one of his ''world champions'' we'd all be up in arms. In fact we regularly are.

 

The Williams win is often used to discredit Martinez now. It's strange. He would have beaten almost every other MW, and still would IMO.

 

That Simon win was impressive tbf. Went 12 with Abraham at 160 and Golovkin took him out in a round.

 

He was to fight Hassan N'Dam but has been flat out ducked. There's a lot of closely matched fighters in the division not fighting each other. It's getting to be a lot like an NME writer. Pretty depressing.

 

This is so epically biased and deliberately ignorant it's hard to believe you think it qualifies as a "point".

Who exactly do you think deserves status as "the man" at 160 if not Martinez?

 

:deal Spot on.

I'm guessing his choice would be either Pirog or Golovkin, going on his tendency for showing bias towards Eastern European fighters in the past.

Honestly, the overly critical nature of some posters on here never fails to amaze me. If you don't produce 10/10 performances every fight, regardless of the circumstances, you're instantly the most overrated figther to ever exist