Barney Felix (3rd Man the Ring; Liston vs. Clay)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Referee Barney Felix;

    His take on the fight in Miami Beach.

    Part I.

    I was well aware of Sonny Listons strength and power, but their was alot of baggage surrounding the champion.
    His past, his connections and his demeanor.

    There was all sorts of things transpiring before this bout, everything from Cassius Clay to being killed in the ring by Sonny Liston's fists, to the lack of interest in both the boxing community and public.

    Before the bout, I went to each boxers dressing room and went over the
    instructions. Cassius Clay was very nervous, and was not sure what to
    expect, but there seemed to be a bolt of confidence in him.

    I asked Cassius if he had any questions, and he just asked, 'If it goes 15, will I get a fair decision'.
    I responded,,,,,'Yes, clean punching is what we're looking for'

    I was expecting Angelo Dundee to ask me to make sure his fighter didn't
    get hurt bad, and don't wait to long to stop it, if Cassius got hurt.
    But he never said anything.

    Bill Faversham, Cassius Clay's manager, seemed very relaxed for a guy
    who was throwing a young 22 year-old kid into the ring, with an
    invincible fighter. That always struck me as odd.

    If that was my fighter, I sure would have been nervous.

    When I went to Sonny Liston's dressing room, there seemed to be no one in charge, except Sonny.
    His trainers were, to put it bluntly, like statues. Jack Nilon, his manager didn't look like he was in charge, and
    appeared to be more of a lost child in a crowd.

    When I went over the preliminary instructions, I asked Sonny if he had any questions, and his response was a simple,,,,,,,,'No, not now'.

    Willie Reddish, Liston's trainer, just asked, 'Don't let the grabbing and running get out of hand'

    As I left, I was somewhat perplexed by the lack of excitement in
    Liston's camp. The whole crew seemed like they were workers going
    to a drab job, doing the same drab thing. Like working on a boring
    assembly line.
    They were not despondent, but the lack of emotion struck me as odd.

    A large group of Sonny's backers, I guess from Las Vegas (Ash Resnick and his crew) were in the corridor outside the Liston's dressing area, drawing attention to themsleves, but I paid no mind.
     
  2. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Part II.

    As for the fight itself, I had the best seat in the house.

    Cassius Clay was tad bigger than I expected, and was very loose.
    Sonny was a little thicker than the last time I saw him, but he still was in
    good shape, no matter what anybody else said.

    In Round 1, I expected Sonny to charge into Cassius, and tear him apart. But
    Sonny came out pacing himself, as Cassius moved quickly around the ring.

    Liston did trap Clay on the ropes early in the round, and landed a thudding right
    to the body, but Liston caught Clay with the end of the punch, so the power
    was diminished. I heard Cassius grunt, so it did take a little wind out of him.

    That punch made Clay respect Sonny's power, so he went back to the quick moving.
    There were a few times in the round, that Sonny could have unloaded heavier punches, but for some reason he pulled them, as he looked like he wanted to pace himself.

    With about 40-seconds left in the round, Cassius went on the offensive, as he
    caught Sonny moving too slow. Sonny got complacent, and Clay took advantage with his speed to land several good quick punches.
    Sonny tried to bull back, but Clay was too quick, and he let Cassius steal the round
    with the cleaner punches landed.

    I believe, that round was so frustrating for Sonny. He was the full aggressor for
    2:20 of the round, and had the round in his pocket, then he let the kid steal it from him.

    The 1st Round went an additional 10-seconds, because we could not hear the
    Round Bell, and during the last 10-seconds, Sonny was closing in on Clay.

    As for an injury to Sonny's shoulder, later claimed by his corner that it happened
    in the 1st Round. I honestly don't know.
     
  3. fininan

    fininan Member Full Member

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    pretty interesting ****. gotta say thaks for all the liston gold you keep unearthing.
     
  4. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    Looking back, their were 3 specific instances where Sonny may have hurt his left shoulder.
    Sonny did miss a big left hook near the end of the round, and it is possible he could have thrown his arm-shoulder joint out.
    Also, during one of the exchanges, in the second half of the round, Sonny dipped to his
    right as Clay was throwing a right hook, and the punch landed on the tip of
    Sonny's left shoulder, which may have hit a nerve, kind of like a pointer.

    Another punch that Sonny threw was an awkward looking left jab, and it appeared
    that his arm was locked up at the end of the punch.

    At no time, did I see Sonny grimace or wince in pain, or complain of an injury.
    And during the corner visit at the end of the 1st Round, I did not see anyone
    addressing Sonny's left shoulder.

    Jack Nilon, Sonny's manager, later stated 'That he heard Sonny's shoulder pop in the
    1st Round'.
    But that was impossible, because of the Convention Hall crowd noise, it was hard to hear anything in their,,,,,I didn't even hear the bell ending the 1st Round, they had
    to gong it several times.

    As for strange things, I was aware of some crazy betting on this fight, and I wanted
    to make sure no funny business was going on, so I kept my eyes sharp.

    As they went back to their corners at Rounds end, I saw no panic in anyones eyes, as it looked as if both fighters
    expected the Round to go just as it played out.
     
  5. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    Coming out for Round 2, I was suprised, as Cassius Clay looked a little winded.
    Sonny, on the other hand, looked better, as he seemed to loosen up.
    Sonny was way too tight in Round 1.
    Cassius did attempt to throw a few jabs, but Sonny pressed and was throwing
    longs right to the body, in an attempt to slow Cassius down.

    I was looking closely at Clay, because I thought this was the round he would fall part, \but he suprised me too, as he just played out the round in a jab and move fashion.
    He had no desire, to get in their and mix it up with Sonny.

    Looking back, it was a Round, where Sonny didn't over use his left hand, and maybe
    just possibly he did hurt it in Round 1.
    If anything, Cassius was not fazed by Sonny's left, and there did not seem to be
    much snapping-power behind it.
     
  6. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At the end of Round 2, there was somewhat of an astonished feeling throughout
    the Convention Hall, as Cassius Clay was about to the hear the bell for Round 3.

    I scored round 2 for Sonny, and Round 1 for Clay.
    In the corner after the round, Listons corner had 4-people surrounding him, and even
    manager Jack Nilon was in their helping, pulling on the Listons trunks and waist-guard,
    so Sonny could get more air in.
    I figured, that Sonny would let loose in Round 3, and I was preparing myself,
    for what I thought would be the last round.

    Clay's punches were sharp, but not hard, coupled with Sonny' strength and
    durability, I figured Liston to walk through him.

    As Round 3 started, Sonny plodded, and was lazy with his long-left, and Clay suprised him early in, with a quick and blistering attack, as Liston was completely caught off-guard.
    About 15-seconds into the round, Clay hit Sonny with a chopping right which caught Listons attention.
    Liston instead of taking a step back, moved forward, and Clay obliged, by hitting Sonny again with the same punch.
    This one was solid, and Sonny dipped and was shaken, and he froze for about a second.
     
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    While Liston froze, Cassius did open up, and shook Liston, who really had no defense, other than to back-up and into the ropes.
    I looked at Sonny, and his eyes were clear, so I knew he was OK.
    After that flurry, Cassius moved in, threw a couple of more shots, but smartly
    backed out, and into ring-center.
    Sonny jabbed, and Cassius let fly another counter right, which again stung Sonny.

    In my heart, I knew, this kid was real good, and Sonny, with all his brute-strength
    just didn't have an answer yet.
    I'm sure if Sonny could hit him he would hurt him, but Sonny couldn't get the right
    range to unload the left hook.

    The 3rd Round was played out in 3-parts, Cassius Clay completely dominating the first-minute,
    the second-minute with Sonny re-grouping and Clay smartly resting, then Sonny coming on
    the last-minute.

    At no time in that round, was there any indication of Sonny having a problem with his left arm or shoulder.
    I did notice minor abrassions under Sonny's left eye, and a trickle of blood from his nose.
    The round, in my opinion was Cassius Clay's, but the late-rally and complete end round dominance by Sonny
    could have easily made it an even Round.

    At rounds end, both fighters looked a little exhausted form the high activity.
    I expected a slow round, for Round 4.
    For corner activity, things seemed to be faily calm in Clays corner.
    In Sonny's, his manager Jack Nilon, was obviously upset and nervous, and cut-man Joe Pollino was
    working under both of Liston's eyes.
    To me trainer Willie Reddish looked lost, and he was not talking to Sonny, as Jack Nilon was giving all the instructions.

    As a boxing referee, in my honest opinion, Sonny was fighting the completely wrong fight. Trying to chase down a faster fighter. The pressure for Sonny, to be invincible and knock-out the weaker man, may have taken a toll on him.
    With each passing moment in the ring, he became less invincible, and more embarrassed.
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Before Round 4, my gut feeling was, that this fight would be a long one, unless one of the fighters got too exhausted.

    Sonny, was still the stronger fighter, though he did have some lumps under his eyes.
    Cassius Clay, on the other hand was now exhuberating confidence, knowing he could take Listons best punch, as well as scoring on him.

    The swarm in Sonny's corner was difficult to see or hear what was going on, but
    there did not seem to be a major concern.

    I did expect a slow 4th round, but with both these fighters, you had to be on your
    toes.
     
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    Before I say anything about the 4th round. I never did believe that story about
    linament in Cassius Clay's eyes.

    If anything, Sonny hit Cassius with a couple of good left jabs and in the middle of
    the round, then Sonny hit Clay with a real good short-right and half-hook/half-uppercut left hand.

    After that 2-punch combination, I saw Cassius Clay eyes clearly, and he was stunned.
    He looked cross-eyed for the last half of that round.

    If Sonny only knew had bad Clay was shaken, he might have really turned the tide.

    After 4-rounds, the fight was dead even on my card, 2-2-0.
    I know Gus Jacobson had Clay ahaead 3-1-0, and Bernie Lovett had it 2-1-1 Liston.

    There was no time in the 4th Round, that Cassius made any gesture, that his eyes were
    affecting him.
    To me, it just looked as if he was arm-weary, and was trying to cruise the round.
    Sonny pressed, but he was also exhausted, and for the first time was breathing a little heavy.
    As the round ended, I looked over at Liston's corner, and they seemed content
    on the progress of the fight. The concern that they had at the end of round 1
    and Round 3 was gone.
     
  10. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    Cassius Clay just went back to basics in Round 4, sticking the left jab and moving.
    Over the first half of the round, he landed about 15 good, but light jabs.
    Sonny pressed harder, and though he didn't land as many jabs, Liston had the more force behind his punches.
    The pace for Round 4 was more of Sonny's liking, slower by far than any of the
    first 3-Rounds.
    With about a minute to go, Sonny backed Cassius up to the ropes and landed a good
    square right hand lead, followed by the left hook-uppercut.
    Cassius was dazed, as I could see the look in eyes, and he did blink.
    He was trying to clear his head, as Sonny pressed.
    Near the end of the round, Cassius did land several good jabs, but they were more-or-less to ward off Sonny.

    Sonny was under control, and did not waste any energy in that round, and he came out the round, just as fresh as when he started it.

    Not for one moment, in that round, did Cassius Clay complain of any foreign substance in his eyes.

    In my view, he just was stunned, and he couldn't clear his head, due to those
    two-heavy punches by Sonny Liston.

    As both fighters headed back to their respective corners, there was no immediate concern or confusion.

    After about 15-seconds, Angelo Dundee yelled, 'they put something into my fighter eyes'
    I thought Angelo was talking about his own corner, as I looked over towards
    Clay's corner.
     
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    I walked over to Clay's corner, and before I could say anything,
    Angie Dundee said, 'there's something in his eye's'.
    I called for the ringside physician, Dr. Alexander Robbins, who just happened
    to be sitting in between my neutral corner and Clay's corner.

    I walked back to my corner, as Dr. Robbins went to Clay's corner.
    He was there for about 20-seconds, and looked over Clay.
    He found nothing, and left the area, as Angelo wiped Clay's face with water.

    I figured it was 'ploy' to buy some time for a 'shaken fighter', and I wasn't buying it.

    I looked at Dr. Robbins as he was leaving Clay's corner, and he looked at me and shrugged his shoulders,
    as if to say,,,,,'there's no problem over there, I have no idea what their talking about'.

    Before Round 5 started,
    Drew Bundini Brown walked to the center of the ring, and said,
    "there's something on his gloves"
    and he then pointed towards Liston's corner while looking at me, and said it again 'there's something on his gloves'.

    Angelo Dundee did say something, which sounded like 'we need more time',
    but I wasn't clear on what he said.
     
  12. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    Hindsight is 20/20,
    After the fight, there were questions concering the possibilty of the Liston camp using an illegal substance.

    But you have to remember, at the time of the fight, we had no clue as to what was going on.
    Cassius Clay made no complaint to me during the 4th round. The only thing I could tell,
    is that he got shook by a good right and left by Sonny Liston, and he was hurt.
    Yes he blinked a few times, but that's what fighters do when they are hurt.

    As the round ended, he was along the front ropes, and calmy walked back to his corner, while gliding his right hand along the top rope.

    As Clay walked to his corner, he sure didn't appear blinded and he never made a move with his gloves to wipe anything from his eyes.

    Later, after the fight. Dr. Robbins told me, that he sent his assistant Mark Jannsen
    over to the other side of the ring, to inform Carl Gardner, Vice Chairman of the
    Miami Beach Boxing Commission of Angelo Dundee's complaint.

    Carl Gardner, asked, "if there was any problem with Clay's eyes, then why the hell
    did Dundee send him back out for the 5th Round".
    No one had an answer for that one.

    Carl Gardner had told, Mark Jannsen, "he heard Drew Bundini Brown say, there's something on his gloves",

    He told Mark Jannsen "that if there was problem, Clay's corner could have asked for an injury time-out".

    Angelo Dundee never asked for anything.
     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Great info....and another viewpoint of what went down in the Miami fight.
     
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    As Round 5 just began start, and even before the bell.
    Cassius Clay walked out of his corner, and took a few steps towards me.
    At first, I was confused on what he was attempting to say or do.

    Drew Bundini Brown was still in the ring, and I wouldn't have the let the round start with a cornerman still in the ring.
    It was possible, that Bundini Brown was also attempting to stall the start of the Round.

    But since Dr. Robbins found nothing, I had no authority to delay Round 5.

    Cassius Clay, walked towards me, with both hands up in the air, looking like he was surrendering.
    He was blinking, but he didn't say anything to me directly.
    Angelo Dundee had his hands on Clay, and was trying to guide him.
    And Bundini Brown, was in the corner with a small towell, smelling it, which I guess was the towell
    used to wipe Clay's eyes.

    In retrospect, I honestly have to say, 'It looked like an act'

    As the Time-Keeper blew the whistle, for the cornermen (seconds) to get out of the ring, Sonny Listons corner
    still had their group in the ring, so I made a couple of steps toward Listons' corner, and said 'hurry up'.

    As I returned to my neutral corner, Cassius Clay was now back in his corner.
    The bell rang for the start of Round 5.
     
  15. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    As the bell started Round 5,
    Cassius Clay, who was acting as if he was blinded, walked to ring-center, not
    backwards into the ropes.
    Sonny Liston came out, and went right to work on the body, but his punches
    really lacked power, as they were arm punches.

    Sonny did not sit down on those punches to put power in them, which was very odd,
    because Cassius Clay had no real defense in the first 25-seconds.

    When hard punches are landed, you can hear the force behind them. But the punches Sonny were landing, had no sound.
    Were they 'fake punches', I don't know, but those punches weren't going to hurt anyone.

    Sonny was, to put it bluntly, very amateurish in trying to pummel a fighter on the run. Liston was throwing
    awkward and wasteful punches, as he was chasing Cassius Clay. With each passing moment, he was burning
    himself up,
    About mid-way through the round, Sonny had nothing left on his punches, and Cassius Clay was just stiff-arming
    Sonny.

    It was not like Clay was some masterful magician, as he was open numerous times for big right-hands, but
    Sonny couldn't or wouldn't pull the trigger.