Barney Ross, Toni Canzoneri and Jimmy McLarnin

I know some people who have Barney as the P4P GOAT, and I have no great quarrel with that. For me, Canzi over Ross is hardly chiseled in granite.

Tony's final crowning at the expense of Ambers was a resourceful masterpiece. He clearly no longer had the legs he once possessed, and Lou had bounds of youthful energy. Canzi was ringworn after 140 fights, even though he was not yet 27. (Jerry Quarry and Esteban DeJesus were almost completely shot before they were out of their middle 20s, and they had far fewer fights at heavier weights.)

The Canzoneri who forever prevented Billy Petrolle from becoming a champion in November 1932 would have been a headache for anybody at that weight, and it took a naturally bigger top ten peaking ATG like Ross to lift his crowns (and not with ease, despite the size advantage). In 192 fights, Berg was cleanly knocked out twice-once when he was pushing 30, and by Canzi. Nobody else ever got a clean knockout over Chocolate. Makes one wonder what his knockout percentage might have looked like if he'd gone for the KO every time out.

Imagine Olivares as a junior welterweight champion beating the likes of Pryor. (Hell, Ruben was taller than Canzi.)

 

:huhCall me slow but I don't know how to piece this one together.

 

I think there is an arguement for Mclarnin being the best of the bunch as well actually. On resume alone I feel he comes out on top. Villa, Corbett, Mendall, Canzoneri, Ambers, Leonard AND Ross. Victories over Ambers and Canzoneri was certainly a nice way to round out his career.

All three are superb fighters but for me I would have it as
Ross
Mclarnin
Canzoneri

It pains me to put one of the guys at the bottom.

 

Just that Tony came up from bantam to compete on even terms with some of the greatest welterweights, junior welterweights and lightweights of all time. As great as Ruben was, 126 was his limit, and he was somewhat shaky there, getting stopped by Arguello, Lopez, Pedroza and Hafey. This is a consensus top bantam of all time. (Canzi only gets stopped on a TKO when Bummy retires him.)

 

Yeah, it's a challenge, but that's what makes for a good thread. We're splitting hairs between these guys.

 

Ross 11-14
Canzoneri 18-23
McLarnin 21-25

That's the sort of ranges I have for all 3.

Canzoneri and McLarnin's placings overlap, but I would most probably have Canzoneri ahead of Jimmy.

 

Ross did beat Jimmy McLarin 2 times out of 3. That 3rd fight was pretty one sided though, I didnt have it very close.

 

Ross is in my top 6.

With Fitz, Canzi, Armstrong, Greb, Langford, and of couse Ross.

 

I rate Ross as the best of the three, the question to me is how to rate McLarnin and Canzoneri.

What a difference time can make though. In his own day Ross wasn't even regarded as great, he was just seen as a very good, workman-like performer. And people today complain that contemporary fighters receive no credit! Just think of the standards back then...

 

Fans want to see knockouts, they want to see a killer. I wonder if people really understood the extent of Barney's heart before his wartime heroism and successful overcoming of addiction. After that, I'm sure folks started retroactively wondering if it would have been possible for anybody to stop him in a boxing ring when bullets and drugs failed to do the trick.

 

Nor a peak Henry Armstrong.

 

And dont let the myth that Armstrong carried Ross fool you.

The film CLEARY shows Armstrong trying to take Ross's block off, and gunning for a ko, and Ross trying to win and out box Armstrong.

Ross took a pretty bad beating in that fight, and round 15 was kinda of hard to watch as Armstrong just lump Ross over with head and body shots. Ross was defendless, expect for a iron chin, which made sure Ross would see the final bell.

 

Ross was the best fighter of the three overall, but they are all top 20 ATG's...

 

I put the blame on Jack Dempsey myself, Dempsey was wowing people with his knocksout and beat downs.

Rember when Tunney won the title over Dempsey, Tunney was not thought of very highly because of his boxing style. And brains.


Tunney was not consider great in his day, and the lead up to the first Dempsey fight proves that, Dempsey was nearly a 11-5 favor in that fight, regardless of being out of the ring for 3 years.

Ross was the same. He was look down apound for not knocking people out.

 

Certainly no one can blame Armstrong for taking it easy in that fight. In fact I've heard that Armstrong wanted to finish the fight early because he did not want to damage Ross but Ross just wouldn't go.