Barrera/Marquez re-scored

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Addie, Feb 14, 2009.


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  1. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    1. 10-10
    2. 10-9 Barrera
    3. 10-9 Marquez
    4. 10-9 Marquez
    5. 10-9 Marquez
    6. 10-9 Barrera
    7. 10-9 Barrera - **** Nady, it was a knockdown.
    8. 10-9 Barrera
    9. 10-9 Marquez
    10. 10-9 Marquez
    11. 10-9 Marquez
    12. 10-9 Marquez

    7-4-1 Clear Marquez win. Hell of a fight, would have been a better one if Nady dealt with the knockdown the proper way. Score the knockdown, then take a point away from Barrera.

    Just a final point. I have watched the majority of Barrera's career after this past month, and he the difference between this Barrera and the one that fought in the early 2000's was night and day. No body work, and that was at the forefront of his offensive arsenal during his best days. He was not at his best at 130.
     
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    #1
  2. Mookhound

    Mookhound Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Fully agree, there's some real nonsense about 'dubious scoring'. Marquez won that fight hands down. brilliant performance.
     
    Mookhound, Feb 14, 2009
    Mookhound, Feb 14, 2009
    #2
  3. bachatu

    bachatu Pro Full Member

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    Agree, he was past his best in this one. Hell of a fight either way. I do remember the late nineties watching him on BAD - he did have good body work. When I first saw him, he reminded me a bit of JCC.
     
    bachatu, Feb 14, 2009
    bachatu, Feb 14, 2009
    #3
  4. Vitor Belfort

    Vitor Belfort Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That fight was closer than those blind judges scored. If it wasn't for that dumbazz referee, barrera should have won that fight. I agree with lederman scorecard who had barrera winning by a close margin.
     
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 14, 2009
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 14, 2009
    #4
  5. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    great fight,and JMM deserved the victory but a prime Barrera wouldve beat him.
     
    bladerunner, Feb 14, 2009
    bladerunner, Feb 14, 2009
    #5
  6. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Barrera didn't have good body work, he had some of the best body work around during his hey day. The way he mixed it up seamlessly, with combination of both speed and power was brutal. I don't think a great deal of people here at ESB have seen much of Barrera pre-Morales, so they can't fully appreciate just how good his offensive arsenal was at 122. I used to think his best days were at 126, but Barrera was an offensive machine at Super Bantamweight, and his destruction's of the likes of Magana and Croft were showcases of his talent.

    I am also sure that Marquez probably was also super impressive during his early days at 126, but I cannot comment fully because I've not seen as much of him as I have Marco.

    For me, 122lb Barrera had one of the most impressive offensive arsenals of the 90s. No way was he the least skilled of the three Mexicans.
     
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    #6
  7. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    you being from England you probably saw his fight there against Paul Loyd.

    the fight only lasted one round but its still one of the worst beatings ive ever seen.
     
    bladerunner, Feb 14, 2009
    bladerunner, Feb 14, 2009
    #7
  8. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Loyd deserves credit for not staying down in round 1. Sure, he quit on his stool, but like you said, he got absolutely destroyed. Richie Wenton did a little better, but he also sustained a brutal beatdown.

    How Barrera lost to Jones is one of the biggest mystery's. He was clearly better than Jones, and in the rematch, he did very well at trying to box him. I think even with those two defeats, he was still the best Super Bantamweight around along with Morales. Their first fight was indicative of just hpw great the two of them were, and how they shouldn't really be seperated at that weight.
     
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    #8
  9. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    I had it a draw.
     
    klompton, Feb 14, 2009
    klompton, Feb 14, 2009
    #9
  10. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    The thing about this fight that MAB fans ignore is that Marquez fought with the extra weight on his shoulders knowing that he'd clearly have to win his rounds by a wide margin to get them against a percieved legend like MAB......

    .....Marquez did'nt have the luxury to sit back in the pocket and wait for countering opportunities while MAB tried to stall the exchanges.....

    A fighter that can follow a game plan that is off of his comfort zone and what he does best, is a sign of a great fighter.....

    .....thats what JMM did that night vs MAB. Marquez pressed the fight and forced MAB to have to respond and expend energy......

    .....the deeper the fight went, the more JMM won the rounds by a wider margin.




    Alot is made of Nady missing the knockdown in the 7th round.....but lost in the shuffle is the fact that JMM had dominated that round so much, that it was feasible to have given him a 10-8 round had he not been knocked down in that round.

    Nady missed the knockdown of course, but even if Nady calls it a knockdown and MAB does'nt hit Marquez when he's down, thats still not a 10-8 for MAB......

    JMM had dominated the round that the knockdown only pulls MAB even for the round at 10-10.......the fact that a point was deducted from MAB makes it a 10-9 for JMM with the knockdown score......

    ....the point being that the knockdown does'nt make a difference in that JMM still wins the round regardless if Nady calls the knockdown or not.




    Btw selfkill, since Nady missed the knockdown, the 7th round should be scored at least a 10-8 for JMM.
    A 10-7 is not out of the question as JMM completely pummeled MAB in that round.
     
    divac, Feb 14, 2009
    divac, Feb 14, 2009
    #10
  11. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    marquez by 2 points but it should really be a KD

    if moth fighters win in their next fight, then we would have a rematch..
     
    asero, Feb 14, 2009
    asero, Feb 14, 2009
    #11
  12. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    You don't need to write an essay to convince me of anything, Divac. I know you're a huge fan of Marquez, and I've already said he won the fight close but clear. The 7th round was not worthy of a 10-7 because the domination did not begin from start to finish, it was just a series of combination's that landed and clearly hurt Barrera. Nady should have called the knockdown and then deducted 1 point. 10-9 Barrera, effectively.

    That was not the best version of Marco Antonio Barrera, and it wasn't even close to the offensive machine we saw at 122 and 126lb.

    I am not neccesarily saying prime for prime Barrera decisions Marquez, I am a huge fan of both fighters, but Barrera was in worse shape than Marquez. Marco was no super featherweight, either.
     
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    #12
  13. Boom_Boom

    Boom_Boom R.I.P Boxing 6/9/12 Full Member

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    I think Nady has been poorly misjudged for his decision not to count the 7th rd Kd a knockdown.

    MaB had plenty of time to realize and know that JMM was down yet he winded back as far as possible and still threw the punch which sent JMM on his back.

    Put yourself in Nady's shoes, after Mab landed that punch, you began a count but JMM cant get up, how wrong would it be to score the fight a TKO win for Mab?

    Mab is lucky as hell he didnt get DQ'd right there.
     
    Boom_Boom, Feb 14, 2009
    Boom_Boom, Feb 14, 2009
    #13
  14. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Good point.

    You still score the knockdown however, because it was a legitimate knockdown.
     
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    Addie, Feb 14, 2009
    #14
  15. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    I've noticed that fans and even actual judges dont do it......but personally in every fight that I score, I dont give a fighter who scored a knockdown a 10-8 round unless he actually won or was at least even on the round before the knockdown.......
    ......just my opinion, but its just a wrong way to score a round.
    Without a knockdown in that 7th you score it a clear and dominating 10-9 round for JMM, as clear a 10-9 as a fighter can get.......

    By giving MAB a 10-8, you essentially give MAB 3 points for landing a punch and scoring a knockdown.

    It just does'nt make sense to me that a clear 10-9 for JMM becomes a 10-8 for MAB with a single punch.


    .......and you're right about a prime for prime match.....it does'nt necessarily mean that MAB does better.......
    ....in fact, from my point of view, the more aggressive MAB that you talk about, likely gets him in deeper water against a Marquez who's likely be fighting at his comfort zone, countering from the pocket.
    A more aggressive MAB likely works against him against a style like JMM's!


    Sorry about my essays, but I like to make myself clear all in one post!:D;)
     
    divac, Feb 14, 2009
    divac, Feb 14, 2009
    #15
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