Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Pacquaio. The best fighter?

The poll states whos the most talented...PAC is the most talented. inborn, inate God given talents..no one can deny that. If he doesnt get your vote then introspect.

Best All around is Morales..He can box and he can Brawl..He can outbrawl the brawler..something that MAB and JMM cant do.

If I have to pick whos the best Id say Erik. But PAC is still in his prime and will accomplish more.

I have no doubt that PAC is the better fighter than JMM..do you really think that the Left Right Left combo is going to work this time around?
What I can tell you though is that JMM will be a live underdog. Worth putting money on

 

Can't wait! i'm tired of this recycled soap opera ****...

 

Ahh...but the point is that it's a fight. Is an injury in a fight, a minor one IMO, really a viable excuse for losing it? You should expect to be injured more so than not IMO, especially with Pacquiao's style. That is my argument.

 

Which is something I mentioned earlier. Most fighter get injured during a fight or even during camp. They simply don't use it as an excuse whether they win or lose.

I can see the opinion of others on this. I just don't agree with it.

 

Everything impacts a fight. And Brady being injured isn't an excuse for the Patriots losing. Their team was affected yes, but it is a deficiency of the team if they cannot sustain themselves with their backup, since good depth is part of being a good football team. That would be a depth problem, and it is a reflection on your team.

If Pacquiao sustained a minor injury which affected his power, then it is a deficiency in his abiltiy as a boxer that he could not adapt and change his style to win. It would be different if a KO is the only way to win a fight, but one can simply score points as well, and it speaks to his versatility that he couldn't change. Something that effects performance is not an excuse unless it is so glaring that the athlete cannot go one without it within the context of normal activity in that sport. Being from Jacksonville Fl, I know quite a bit about football injuries, and no one lets the Jags use it as an excuse.

And by the by, the Pacquiao fans DO feel that every little thing that has happened to Pacquiao in his losses were the reasons he lost.

 

A hurt Brady is far more significant than a swollen fist. I would bet that if you asked the boxers on this forum how often their fists are swollen, they will tell you its alot. Losing your starting QB is a bit different. But it is still a reflection on your team if you can't adjust. There is also the variable that other fighters (other team) may have injuries as well that are unknown because they don't like to use them as excuses.

We are going back and forth on an issue of perspective. I am again, going to agree to disagree with you. I simply don't feel that a swollen fist is viable as something that adversly effects a fighter to the extent that is changes the outcome of the fight. I think Pacquiao probably has had a swollen fist in some of his wins, but since he won, it was a non issue.

Also, if we are speaking about the rematch, what are the chances that JMM gets a broken nose in the first round? How will that effect him?

 

PLS ADVISE WHAT FIGHT DID PAC RAN OUT OF GAS DURING A FIGHT?

His last Loss was with Morales. His face was a disaster but HIS GAS TANK was not in question. He lost to a better fighter that night.


If you can't show a fight that he LOST due to LACK of gas from the start there is a flaw in your comparison.

 

:nut I stand corrected on the matter, although it was a simple lapse on my part.....I meant to say Rumble in the Jungle, but because I also had Frazier on my mind, I mistakenly said Thrilla in Manila!


......btw, if you read my entire post, it says that the Parralel between the JMM-Pac and Ali-Foreman was that Foreman and Pac are considered destroyers, and that JMM is considered now as a fighter on the decline, just like Ali was back then.

There are alot of similarities in the stage that Ali and Foreman was in back then to that of JMM and Pac are now.

Never was it stated that the fighters had exactly the same style......

My point was that a past prime Ali beat a prime Foreman, the reasons being that Ali's skills were all around better!

 

I agree!

As far as Pac's swollen hand or blisters on his feet.....its a non-issue, and should'nt even be discussed any further......and that includes JMM fighting with a broken nose for an entire fight......

.....the bottom line is that both fighters entered the fight without the injuries, that fact that they injured themselves during the fight can be attributed to the other injuring them.
These guys are trying to take eachothers heads off. Its a brutal sport, and injuries will occur more often than not!

The great JC Chavez would often take his gloves off after a victory and reveal hands that were swollen!
Its true of alot of fighters.

Now stop this nonsense about a swollen hand and blisters on his feet.....the blisters surely did'nt prevent Pac to head running into the ropes for cover during a JMM combination!

 

I thought it was a great analogy and I still do.....

.....the reason I made it was because Silvermags was insinuating that Pac was somehow Pac's power made him the better fighter.

The point to my post was to show that KO's dont make a fighter the best.

I can give another example to that.....Felix Trinidad was scoring devestating KO's left and right on his way to his showdown with Bernard Hopkins.
Going into the fight, this fact had Trinidad as the favorite to beat Hopkins........
What ensued? Exactly, a master in Hopkins disecting Trinidad's deficiencies and making his power mute!

Having KO power can certainly benefit a fighter if he has the boxing skills to go along with it.....but it sure as heck does'nt mean that you're the better fighter because of it!
That was my point to Silvermags that lead to my analogy of
Ali-Foreman and comparing like scenarios to JMM-Pac!


Btw, I never thought of myself as using alot of emoticons!

.....although I do like to flip them here and there!:hey

Nothing wrong with using a few emoticons to show the reader the mood you're in!:deal :bbb

 

I am not brushing them aside as non consequential. I have said in each and every post that I don't think they were substantial enough to be used as excuses. A broken hand is perhaps, but not a swollen one. Blisters on your feet, a cut on your head, the wrong gloves?

Let me make this more concrete. Injuries that are normally sustained in fights (cuts, hurt hands) are not excuses for losses. When McCline's knee went out, or when Grant broke his ankle, those are things that don't normally happen in the course of a boxing match. Does it affect performance? Yes...many things do. Everything that affects performance is not an excuse for a loss. A common boxing injury should not be used as an excuse for a loss. And when an excuse arises for every loss, it is a pattern. Most fighters are injured. Most athletes are. It is part of being in a physical sport.

 

You are looking too deeply into his analogy. It is simply a face value connection.

Pacfans tend to argue that his winning by KO makes him a better fighter than fighters who win by decision. Cotto fans do this now as well when comparing him to Mayweather. All Divac is saying, and many of us are saying, is that winning by KO doesn't mean that when you meet a fighter who isn't a KO artist you will win, nor does it make you a better fighter when being compared to them. You cannot hit the "My favorite fighter has more KO's" easy button to win a debate.

Now if someone wants to break DOWN the fighter side by side, and not say that "he wins by KO and that is the be all end all", then you start to look into the other attributes. Divac is only saying that KO's alone don't suddenly make you the better fighter. The other attributes are coming into play when the discussion takes place.

 

WOW! a very long discussion... i'd like to hear more from you guys after the fight. I'm curious what both side has to say after all the pre fight debate and stuff.